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Thread: Hillary Unhinged! Tulsi Gabbard & Jill Stein Russian assets...

  1. #21
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I believe the response to whether Hillary was referring to Tulsi Gabbard was, "if he nesting doll fits."

    Gabbard in turn said that Hillary is the "embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot" which infest the Democratic Party and challenged her to get into the campaign rather than "cowardly hid[ing]" behind proxies.
    That of course should be, "if the nesting doll fits."

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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  2. #22
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    That's indeed the standard NPC talking point about a very complex situation. "But, but... the kurds are our allies." Heck, I don't even understand the situation fully and I'm about as up to speed on this geopolitical stuff as anyone only because I find it interesting more than I'm guessing the average person does. I doubt most liberals spouting off "the kurds are our allies" could even find Syria on a map if pressed to do so. I highly doubt, and I mean HIGHLY doubt most liberal NPCs understand the complexity of the situation beyond it being a convenient way to espouse more of the same anti-Trump rhetoric hysteria, so I definitely believe rogue has a point.
    "Most people on the progressive left are ignorant therefore they're only motivated by alternating anti-Trump partisanship and warmongering" does not rise to the level of rigorous critique.

    Most people can't name five SCOTUS justices (or three) but that doesn't mean that folks don't care about SCOTUS decisions. "It's complicated" is a fair argument ... but then that invalidates the other simplistic arguments being made about Democrats or progressive folk on the left.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  3. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    "Most people on the progressive left are ignorant therefore they're only motivated by alternating anti-Trump partisanship and warmongering" does not rise to the level of rigorous critique.

    Most people can't name five SCOTUS justices (or three) but that doesn't mean that folks don't care about SCOTUS decisions. "It's complicated" is a fair argument ... but then that invalidates the other simplistic arguments being made about Democrats or progressive folk on the left.

    --Sam
    Understanding how impactful a scotus decision is on our societal well-being without knowing the players making that decision by name and understanding a complex foreign entanglement in the middle east is comparing apples and oranges. Dude, seriously.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  4. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Understanding how impactful a scotus decision is on our societal well-being without knowing the players making that decision by name and understanding a complex foreign entanglement in the middle east is comparing apples and oranges. Dude, seriously.

    This would presume that SCOTUS decisions are relatively simple and their effects easily discerned. I'd say it's almost always the opposite and, like geopolitical conflicts, people largely rely on news blurbs -- left, right, and center alike.

    So the argument that the left is full of warmongers who are calling Syrian Kurds allies only because they're anti-Trump doesn't hold any weight. Especially considering that we went through a long and intense period when conservatives flooded Fox News, CNN, and social media with support for YPG during Obama's term.

    It's a good deal more likely that folks on the left "learned" about Syrian Kurds about the same time that folks on the right did and established a baseline understanding of the relationship during that media campaign.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  5. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    This would presume that SCOTUS decisions are relatively simple and their effects easily discerned. I'd say it's almost always the opposite and, like geopolitical conflicts, people largely rely on news blurbs -- left, right, and center alike.

    So the argument that the left is full of warmongers who are calling Syrian Kurds allies only because they're anti-Trump doesn't hold any weight. Especially considering that we went through a long and intense period when conservatives flooded Fox News, CNN, and social media with support for YPG during Obama's term.

    It's a good deal more likely that folks on the left "learned" about Syrian Kurds about the same time that folks on the right did and established a baseline understanding of the relationship during that media campaign.

    --Sam
    "Baseline understanding" won't due to a complex situation. Like I said, they know that Trump is bad because "the kurds are our allies" NPC talking point and that's about a baseline as it gets.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  6. #26
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I think for many of them their sudden new-found hawkish positions are a direct result of their being the opposite of what Trump is doing. IOW, if Trump was talking about staying in Syria indefinitely they would be declaring that we need to get out.
    They probably would.

    Democrats Are Hypocrites for Condemning Trump Over Syria

    Presidential hopefuls blasted Trump for abandoning the Kurds—but want the U.S. to pull out of Afghanistan under similar conditions.

    On Tuesday night, the Democratic presidential candidates vied with one another to offer the harshest condemnation of President Donald Trump’s abrupt withdrawal of American troops from northern Syria. Joe Biden called it “the most shameful thing that any president has done in modern history … in terms of foreign policy.” Elizabeth Warren said Trump “has cut and run on our allies,” and “created a bigger-than-ever humanitarian crisis.” Kamala Harris announced, “Yet again Donald Trump [is] selling folks out.”

    Pete Buttigieg’s denunciation was the most personal. Recalling his military service in Afghanistan, the South Bend, Indiana, mayor asked whether America’s wartime allies would ever trust it again. “When I was deployed,” he declared, “not just the Afghan National Army forces but the janitors put their lives on the line just by working with U.S. forces. I would have a hard time today looking an Afghan civilian or soldier in the eye after what just happened over there” in Syria.

    It was a powerful statement—but also an ironic one. Because if Trump’s unilateral, non-negotiated withdrawal from northern Syria makes it harder for Buttigieg to look America’s Afghan allies in the eye, the same might be said of the unilateral, non-negotiated withdrawal that Buttigieg and the other leading Democratic candidates are proposing in Afghanistan itself.


    At this week’s debate, Warren explained that the United States should only have withdrawn its troops from northern Syria “through a negotiated solution.” But speaking about Afghanistan last month in Houston, she rejected that very same principle. ABC’s David Muir asked whether she would “bring the [American] troops home starting right now with no deal with the Taliban.” Warren replied, “Yes.”

    In Houston, Warren’s rivals also refused to condition America’s withdrawal from Afghanistan on a negotiated deal. When Muir asked Buttigieg whether he would stick to his pledge to withdraw all U.S. troops from Afghanistan in his first year despite warnings from top American commanders, Buttigieg ducked the question and insisted that “we have got to put an end to endless war.” Turning to Biden, Muir cited “concerns about any possible vacuum being created in Afghanistan.” But Biden brushed them off, declaring, “We don’t need those troops there. I would bring them home.”

    What makes these statements so remarkable is that experts warn that if the United States withdraws its troops from Afghanistan in the absence of a peace agreement, Afghanistan will suffer a fate remarkably similar to what is happening in northern Syria. In this week’s debate, Warren denounced Trump for having “created a bigger-than-ever humanitarian crisis.” But earlier this month, the International Crisis Group warned that, if American troops unilaterally leave Afghanistan, “Afghans could pay a heavy price” as that country’s war “would likely intensify and become more chaotic.” A Rand Corporation report in January predicted that following a unilateral American withdrawal, “civilian deaths will spike, and refugee flows will increase significantly,” and that “the major advances that Afghans have achieved in democracy, press freedom, human rights, women’s emancipation, literacy, longevity, and living standards will be rolled back.” In September, nine former American diplomats with experience in Afghanistan pleaded, “A major withdrawal of US forces should follow, not come in advance of [a] real peace agreement,” or else the United States might “betray all those who have believed our promises or stepped forward with our encouragement to promote democracy and human rights.”

    Afghans themselves have offered equally ominous warnings. In February, two Afghan women—Mariam Safi, who runs the Organization for Policy Research and Development Studies in Kabul, and Muqaddesa Yourish, a commissioner on Afghanistan’s Independent Administrative Reform and Civil Service Commission—predicted that “a hasty American withdrawal will jeopardize for Afghans the future of hard-won gains such as constitutional rights, freedoms of citizens and democratic institutions.” In March, Palwasha Hassan, the executive director of the Afghan Women’s Educational Center, urged “a responsible withdrawal that is not at the expense of women’s rights.” And in July, Akram Gizabi, a leader of Afghanistan’s Hazaras, a Shia minority, noted that his people had suffered under the Taliban in “brutal, vicious and unimaginable ways” and that “women and Hazaras [had] thrived after the Taliban.” Now, Gizabi said, Taliban victims “watch with amazement that the United States is busy finding the fastest way out of Afghanistan, while leaving the Afghans to the wolves.”

    The parallels between Afghanistan and northern Syria aren’t merely humanitarian. In condemning Trump’s actions in Syria, Warren accused him of having “helped ISIS get another foothold, a new lease on life.” But experts forecast a similar terrorist resurgence if Warren carries out her proposed Afghan withdrawal. Following a unilateral American departure, the Rand report predicts, “extremist groups, including Al Qaeda and the Islamic State, [will] gain additional scope to organize, recruit, and initiate terrorist attacks against U.S. regional and homeland targets.” In their joint statement, the nine former American diplomats envision “an Afghan civil war in which the Islamic State (IS) presence could expand its already strong foothold” and “the Taliban would maintain their alliance with al-Qaeda. All of this could prove catastrophic for US national security as it relates to our fight against both al-Qaeda and IS.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-syria/600253/
    Who knows, they might actually be anti-war, but being anti-Trump is a higher priority.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  7. #27
    tWebber
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    At the Democratic presidential debate on Thursday, the 2020 presidential candidates argued over the nitty-gritty details of policy proposals on everything from health care to gun policy to immigration and criminal justice reform.

    But when it came to what to do about the war in Afghanistan, the candidates were devoid of ideas about what to do beyond “get out, and get out fast.”

    Indeed, it seems like they’re competing to one-up each other on how quickly they’ll pull US troops out of the country. When the campaign cycle started, nearly all of the candidates were pledging to remove troops by the end of their first term. Then, it changed to bringing them home by the end of their first year in office.

    On Thursday night, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) moved the goalposts even closer: promising on the debate stage to pull troops out of Afghanistan immediately, even without a peace deal in place.
    https://www.vox.com/2019/9/13/208641...fghanistan-war
    Pulling out immediately is a hundred times more irresponsible and crazy than what they're accusing Trump of doing in Syria. They just want to pander to the public that is getting increasingly tired of war.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  8. #28
    tWebber
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    Hillary Unhinged!
    She really should run. As crazy as she's getting, Trump might even win California.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  9. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  10. #29
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Interestingly only Marianne Williamson and Andrew Yang have defended Gabbard and Cory "I am Spartacus" Booker mocked Gabbard's response to Hillary.

    Both were scheduled to speak at Fortune's Most Powerful Women Summit but Hillary has suddenly backed out. Perhaps Gabbard is right about Hillary being a coward.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  11. #30
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Putting up a 3rd party candidate to draw off moderate democratic voters would be a good way to increase the probability of a Trump 2nd term. Whether that is actually their plan, it's a plausible means of keeping their preferred candidate in office.


    Jim
    Please tell me this is satire.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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