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Thread: After months/years of "lock her up"...

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    After months/years of "lock her up"...

    ...a three year investigation by the State Department into Clinton's use of a private email server found "no evidence of deliberate mishandling of classified information." As usual, the story, which was front and center for most of 2015-2016, merits minimal coverage.

    Of the 33,000 emails reviewed as part of the investigation, 588 violations were found, but on the sender's part, not Clinton's. 497 of these were not found to be due to anyone's direct fault. 38 people were reprimanded for the other 91 violations of policy, which did not rise to the level of "criminal." The violations go on their record and will be considered when applying for or renewing security clearances in the future. Basically, the findings affirm what Comey originally said: sloppy and negligent - but not criminal.

    I'm going to guess that there will still be reasons for many people (most notably, Trump's base) to hang on to their "she was guilty" positions and their "lock her up" chants, despite the findings of a Republican-driven investigation under a Republican administration. So much for "rule of law."
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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    ...a three year investigation by the State Department into Clinton's use of a private email server found "no evidence of deliberate mishandling of classified information."
    "Deliberate mishandling" was never part of the law. "Sorry, officer, but I didn't deliberately run that red light!" Doesn't matter, you still broke the law.

    (Never mind the fact that Hillary's pleas of ignorance are literally unbelievable.)
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    "Deliberate mishandling" was never part of the law. "Sorry, officer, but I didn't deliberately run that red light!" Doesn't matter, you still broke the law.

    (Never mind the fact that Hillary's pleas of ignorance are literally unbelievable.)
    It's even worse than "sorry I didn't deliberately run the red light" --- persons who handle classified information take an oath to protect that information - a positive declaration - from even accidental or 'negligent' handling.

    Here's a copy of the "312" that persons with security clearances must sign.

    And, from that...

    3. I have been advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling of classified information by me could cause damage or irreparable injury to the United States or could be used to advantage by a foreign nation. I hereby agree that I will never divulge classified information to anyone unless: (a) I have officially verified that the recipient has been properly authorized by the United States Government to receive it; or (b) I have been given prior written notice of authorization from the United States Government Department or Agency (hereinafter Department or Agency) responsible for the classification of information or last granting me a security clearance that such disclosure is permitted. I understand that if I am uncertain about the classification status of information, I am required to confirm from an authorized official that the information is unclassified before I may disclose it, except to a person as provided in (a) or (b), above. I further understand that I am obligated to comply with laws and regulations that prohibit the unauthorized disclosure of classified information.


    It's not just "I'll try to keep stuff secret" but "I'm responsible if I don't" - this "deliberate mishandling" stuff is a crock.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    "Deliberate mishandling" was never part of the law. "Sorry, officer, but I didn't deliberately run that red light!" Doesn't matter, you still broke the law.

    (Never mind the fact that Hillary's pleas of ignorance are literally unbelievable.)
    It would be almost unheard of to be prosecuted for clearly accidental mishandling of classified data. Typical responses are disciplinary action up to and including loss of the clearance and/or loss of employment. But generally there has to be clear criminal intent for there to be criminal consequences.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-20-2019 at 12:16 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It would be almost unheard of to be prosecuted for clearly accidental mishandling of classified data. Typical responses are disciplinary action up to and including loss of the clearance and/or loss of employment. But generally there has to be clear criminal intent for there to be criminal consequences.

    Jim
    MSNBC analyst: People have gone to jail over what Clinton did with email

    An MSNBC legal analyst noted Friday afternoon that the Obama administration has prosecuted people for mishandling of classified information similarly to how former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton may have, as news broke that the State Department found 22 emails containing top-secret information on Clinton's private server.

    "People do go to jail for mishandling classified information," Ari Melber said. "They have been prosecuted in the Obama administration for that."
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It's even worse than "sorry I didn't deliberately run the red light" --- persons who handle classified information take an oath to protect that information - a positive declaration - from even accidental or 'negligent' handling.

    Here's a copy of the "312" that persons with security clearances must sign.

    And, from that...

    3. I have been advised that the unauthorized disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling of classified information by me could cause damage or irreparable injury to the United States or could be used to advantage by a foreign nation. I hereby agree that I will never divulge classified information to anyone unless: (a) I have officially verified that the recipient has been properly authorized by the United States Government to receive it; or (b) I have been given prior written notice of authorization from the United States Government Department or Agency (hereinafter Department or Agency) responsible for the classification of information or last granting me a security clearance that such disclosure is permitted. I understand that if I am uncertain about the classification status of information, I am required to confirm from an authorized official that the information is unclassified before I may disclose it, except to a person as provided in (a) or (b), above. I further understand that I am obligated to comply with laws and regulations that prohibit the unauthorized disclosure of classified information.


    It's not just "I'll try to keep stuff secret" but "I'm responsible if I don't" - this "deliberate mishandling" stuff is a crock.
    Not really. There are consequences for negligence to be sure, and the potential exist for prosecution, but unless you are stealing information or exposing information intentionally, the consequences dont usually involve criminal prosecution.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  9. #7
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Not really. There are consequences for negligence to be sure, and the potential exist for prosecution, but unless you are stealing information or exposing information intentionally, the consequences dont usually involve criminal prosecution.

    Jim
    See my previous post, please.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    MSNBC analyst: People have gone to jail over what Clinton did with email

    An MSNBC legal analyst noted Friday afternoon that the Obama administration has prosecuted people for mishandling of classified information similarly to how former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton may have, as news broke that the State Department found 22 emails containing top-secret information on Clinton's private server.

    "People do go to jail for mishandling classified information," Ari Melber said. "They have been prosecuted in the Obama administration for that."
    That doesnt mean that is a typical response. And I would bet there was a significant and clear knowledge they were acting outside protocols and procedures in the cases that were prosecuted. That is, they didn't just accidentally take their phone into a SCIF and wind up in jail.

    I am not sure the full set of conditions or precedent with the Clinton server in that as I understand it this was not an unusual thing. And that may well be why this would not be prosecuted. If there was an established and historical precedent of standing up such servers, then one would be hard pressed to single her out in a court of law.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-20-2019 at 12:29 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  11. #9
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That doesnt mean that is a typical response.
    Never said it did. But it also shows that there are others who go to jail -- how much more responsible should a SecOfState be?

    And I would bet there was a significant and clear knowledge they were acting outside protocols and procedures in the cases that were prosecuted.

    I am not sure the full set of conditions or precedent with the Clinton server in that as I understand it this was not an unusual thing. And that may well be why this would not be prosecuted. If there was an established and historical precedent of standing up such servers, then one would be hard pressed to single her out in a court of law.

    Jim
    It's not prosecuted because of who she is, Jim. And Comey changing the standard to require an element of "intent" where none exists in the law.

    10 Times People Were Punished For FAR Less Than What Hillary Clinton Did
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 10-20-2019 at 12:32 PM.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    tWebber
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    Does this investigation include the 30000 emails Bleachbitted? If not, than it has zero meaning.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

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