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After months/years of "lock her up"...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Predicting a rebuttal is not the same as refuting it.
    It doesn't need refutation, MM, and history suggests that (even if it did) any attempt to even try would be largely wasted time. I wasn't expecting anyone here that leans right to actually acknowledge the findings of the DOJ and State Departments. People are too invested in "lock her up" and "Clinton bad" to let something as inane (TIC) as the findings of an opposition party justice department and state department meaningful.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Pretty much what I predicted...
      I also predicted no response to my questions.

      Why, did you just trust the headlines by Fake News without reading the report?
      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
        From the report,





        This is just the beginning.
        The basis of American law is "innocent until proven guilty."

        Unless, of course, the person in question is from the opposite party...
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
          I also predicted no response to my questions.

          Why, did you just trust the headlines by Fake News without reading the report?
          What makes you think I did not read the report?
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #35
            Answer my original question, and stop dodging, coward. Did this investigation look at the 30000 emails on the server that were Bleachbitted and not handed over to State or the FBI? Yes or no, it's a simple question.
            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
              Answer my original question, and stop dodging, coward. Did this investigation look at the 30000 emails on the server that were Bleachbitted and not handed over to State or the FBI? Yes or no, it's a simple question.
              I don't know. Since I understand they were destroyed, I would assume "no" is the most likely answer - but that is an assumption on my part.

              ETA: It is also irrelevant. American law is based on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty." It is not "we don't know until we can get every piece of evidence we want to exist." If Clinton were guilty of destroying evidence, that would be a separate charge - and it has not been levied.
              Last edited by carpedm9587; 10-20-2019, 04:13 PM.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                I don't know. Since I understand they were destroyed, I would assume "no" is the most likely answer - but that is an assumption on my part.
                Good. Then don't pretend that she has been vindicated by this report, because she destroyed half of the emails. How on earth can someone like that be vindicated? How can this report meaningfully support the conclusion that she is innocent? How is this an 'exoneration'?

                American law is based on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty."
                Legal innocence is also irrelevant as people are still entitled to regard her as guilty given the tell-tale behaviour of destroying evidence. Lock her up!
                Last edited by demi-conservative; 10-20-2019, 04:19 PM.
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Let's make another prediction: carped backtracks from calling this an "exoneration", since obviously with half the emails deleted there can't be an exoneration. It's at best a 'not found legally guilty so far', pending the discovery of the rest of the emails.
                  Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    It doesn't need refutation...
                    Translation: "I can't refute it."

                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      The idea that the suspect can be exonerated after admitting to destroying half the evidence demanded is literally retarded, so it comes as no surprise that carped and others still believe that she was 'exonerated' by Comey or by this report.
                      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                        Good. Then don't pretend that she has been vindicated by this report, because she destroyed half of the emails. How on earth can someone like that be vindicated? How can this report meaningfully support the conclusion that she is innocent? How is this an 'exoneration'?

                        Legal innocence is also irrelevant as people are still entitled to regard her as guilty given the tell-tale behaviour of destroying evidence. Lock her up!
                        Like I said - no surprise here...
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Translation: "I can't refute it."

                          No - my post required no translation. It was fairly clear to even the casual reader.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                            The idea that the suspect can be exonerated after admitting to destroying half the evidence demanded is literally retarded, so it comes as no surprise that carped and others still believe that she was 'exonerated' by Comey or by this report.
                            ....or here...
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              ...a three year investigation by the State Department into Clinton's use of a private email server found "no evidence of deliberate mishandling of classified information." As usual, the story, which was front and center for most of 2015-2016, merits minimal coverage.

                              Of the 33,000 emails reviewed as part of the investigation, 588 violations were found, but on the sender's part, not Clinton's. 497 of these were not found to be due to anyone's direct fault. 38 people were reprimanded for the other 91 violations of policy, which did not rise to the level of "criminal." The violations go on their record and will be considered when applying for or renewing security clearances in the future. Basically, the findings affirm what Comey originally said: sloppy and negligent - but not criminal.

                              I'm going to guess that there will still be reasons for many people (most notably, Trump's base) to hang on to their "she was guilty" positions and their "lock her up" chants, despite the findings of a Republican-driven investigation under a Republican administration. So much for "rule of law."
                              I'm with demi. Trump's "lock her up" was actually based on the tens of thousands of emails she deleted and pointed this out rather directly in a lot of his speeches. Innocent until guilty sure, and we'll unfortunately never know whether she really was guilty of something far more horrendous than national security neglect, but the thread title is inaccurate because that phrase wasn't just reference to the emails she didn't delete.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seanD View Post
                                I'm with demi. Trump's "lock her up" was actually based on the tens of thousands of emails she deleted and pointed this out rather directly in a lot of his speeches. Innocent until guilty sure, and we'll unfortunately never know whether she really was guilty of something far more horrendous than national security neglect, but the thread title is inaccurate because that phrase wasn't just reference to the emails she didn't delete.
                                The problem with Clinton, IMO, is she was politically stupid. She used the same email system for personal and professional use. She says the emails she deleted were the personal ones. I have no reason to doubt her and it fits with everything else we've learned.

                                But it makes no difference. The maxim of American law is "innocent until proven guilty." Many (most?) on the right like to remind us of that over and over again when it is about Trump's misdeeds (or anyone on the right, for that matter), but then conveniently forget it when it is Clinton (or anyone on the left, for that matter). The fact is, no charges have been brought for either mishandling classified emails OR for destruction of evidence. The investigation has gone on for three years now, and was completed by an opposition administration.

                                We either live by the rule of law - or we don't. We don't pick and choose when it is convenient. Right now, there is a lot of suspicion about what Trump is doing and has done - but the legal system has not completed its process, so you won't hear me screaming "lock him up" or even advocating for his impeachment until the investigations are complete, evidence (if any) is provided, and articles of impeachment (if any) drawn up.

                                With Clinton, the legal system HAS run its course - and she has been cleared of wrong doing in the handling of classified information (so far). If new evidence arises, they should (and hopefully will) examine that evidence as well. Until they do, she is presumed innocent. Trump's rallying cry from 2016 (which continues through his modern rallies) is a political stunt that ignores the rule of law. It is one of the many reasons I find him unfit to hold the office he holds. The person at the head of the executive branch should be the foremost example in respecting the rule of law, IMO. Trump betrays his contempt for rule of law day after day.

                                And, for the record, I didn't vote for Clinton and never thought she was a good choice for a presidential candidate. I don't personally care if she is jailed or not - so long as it is done with due process of law - as we ALL should expect. I have the same feelings/philosophy concerning Trump.
                                Last edited by carpedm9587; 10-20-2019, 05:34 PM.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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