Justice Department Distances Itself From Giuliani

[Mountain Man]

Not really. From another thread:

You mean the testimony where Mr. Taylor said, and I quote:

According to Mr. Morrison, President Trump told Ambassador Sondland that he was not asking for a "quid pro quo".

Is that the testimony you're referring to?

And from the honorable Rep. John Ratcliffe:

I questioned him directly on that.https://theconservativetreehouse.com...omment-page-1/

[Mountain Man]

You delude yourself, just as Trump lives in denial.

The Mueller report revealed 10 instances when Trump's conduct raised potential legal issues.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...ustice-1281245

"Potential legal issues" is just another way of saying that there is no evidence that the President committed a crime in actuality, which is exactly what Mueller's report says, that it could not be concluded that the President committed any crimes.

[Mountain Man]

In other news, the Deep State (which the New York Times recently admitted is real) is sweating bullets over Durham's investigation. Coney and Brennan recently lawyered up.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...spygate-probe/

[firstfloor]

Not really. From another thread:

Factually incorrect and legally worthless, hot air. No, at this point it is just a matter of timing the articles of impeachment to be as embarrassing as possible to the Trump Clan of demonic reprobates.

[firstfloor]

In other news, the Deep State (which the New York Times recently admitted is real) is sweating bullets over Durham's investigation. Coney and Brennan recently lawyered up.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...spygate-probe/

[Juvenal]

In other news, the Deep State (which the New York Times recently admitted is real) is sweating bullets over Durham's investigation. Coney and Brennan recently lawyered up.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...spygate-probe/

As reported in the Times and elsewhere, the "deep state" is a conspiracy theory which misses the obvious: The most aggressive push-backs against Trump have all come from his own appointees. Hence the "deep state," such as it is, is the state Trump brought in with him.

That would include Ambassador Yovanovich's replacement, Ambassador Taylor, brought in out of retirement, and quoted above retelling an account from the president relayed by Ambassador Sondland stating there was "no quid pro quo" before going on to flesh out the contradiction in excruciating detail in his opening statement, before testifying for a further nine hours before the committee.


William B. Taylor Jr. laid out in visceral terms the potentially life-or-death stakes of what he saw as an illegitimate scheme to pressure Kiev for political help by suspending American security aid.

By Peter Baker
Published Oct. 22, 2019
Updated Oct. 23, 2019, 6:10 a.m. ET

It's almost immaterial at this point to note that no quid pro quo is required to determine that asking for foreign assistance in a U.S. election campaign is illegal. In fact, "collusion," all by itself, was, and oddly still is, judging from the cartoons posted in this thread, considered a serious breach with respect to the Russians. It's astounding to find Trump releasing a transcript of a call less than 24 hours after Mueller had finished his testimony before the congress showing exactly that with the newly-elected president of Ukraine.

The "quid" in this case, only suggested previously, included military assistance in support of not just Ukraine, but our own national security, needed by Ukraine to resist military attacks from Russia within their own sovereign territory. The "quo" was an investigation into various charges pushed by Giuliani and his recently-arrested companions that have been widely debunked, including charges from Lutsenko that Giuliani had himself previously acknowledged were bogus.

described an effort.

[Mountain Man]

Factually incorrect and legally worthless, hot air. No, at this point it is just a matter of timing the articles of impeachment to be as embarrassing as possible to the Trump Clan of demonic reprobates.

It's time to wake up, kiddo, Rachel is lying to you. Democrats do not have the facts on their side. It's why they refuse to make their impeachment inquiry official with a House vote, and why they refuse to open the door to their hearings, and it's why they won't ever actually vote to impeach, because if this thing ever gets to the Senate where everything will be out in the open, and Trump's lawyers will have the opportunity to tear witnesses like Taylor to shreds, then I think the public will be rightly furious at what the Democrats tried to pull. It's best for them politically to keep everything cloaked in darkness in order to string along low-info morons like you. Only Durham and Barr are about to drop the hammer, and the Democrats are quickly running out of time.

Stay tuned, because things are finally getting interesting!

[Mountain Man]

As report ed in the Times and elsewhere, the "deep state" is a conspiracy theory which misses the obvious: The most aggressive push-backs against Trump have all come from his own appointees. Hence the "deep state," such as it is, is the state Trump brought in with him.

That would include Ambassador Yovanovich's replacement, Ambassador Taylor, brought in out of retirement, and quoted above retelling an account from the president relayed by Ambassador Sondland stating there was "no quid pro quo" before going on to flesh out the contradiction in excruciating detail in his opening statement, before testifying for a further nine hours before the committee.


William B. Taylor Jr. laid out in visceral terms the potentially life-or-death stakes of what he saw as an illegitimate scheme to pressure Kiev for political help by suspending American security aid.

By Peter Baker
Published Oct. 22, 2019
Updated Oct. 23, 2019, 6:10 a.m. ET

It's almost immaterial at this point to note that no quid pro quo is required to determine that asking for foreign assistance in a U.S. election campaign is illegal. In fact, "collusion," all by itself, was, and oddly still is, judging from the cartoons posted in this thread, considered a serious breach with respect to the Russians. It's astounding to find Trump releasing a transcript of a call less than 24 hours after Mueller had finished his testimony before the congress showing exactly that with the newly-elected president of Ukraine.

The "quid" in this case, only suggested previously, included military assistance in support of not just Ukraine, but our own national security, needed by Ukraine to resist military attacks from Russia within their own sovereign territory. The "quo" was an investigation into various charges pushed by Giuliani and his recently-arrested companions that have been widely debunked, including charges from Lutsenko that Giuliani had himself previously acknowledged were bogus.

described an effort.

Read what Rep. Ratcliffe had to say. There is, to date, zero evidence that Ukraine officials were aware that military funds had been withheld making quid pro quo legally impossible. Not even Taylor disputed this fact when directly questioned!

[Juvenal]

Prosecutors flagged possible ties between Ukrainian gas tycoon and Giuliani associates
By Matt Zapotosky, Rosalind S. Helderman, Tom Hamburger and Josh Dawsey
Oct. 22, 2019 at 8:22 p.m. EDT

The connections between Giuliani and these Ukrainian organized crime figures, becomes more pronounced each day, with unmistakable links to Trump which are bound to impact the impeachment inquiry and the eventual, foregone impeachment in the House and less certain trial in the Senate.

Unlike others posting this thread in partisan approval of these investigations, for the good of the country, I think we really need to get past this. Ideally, Trump should resign, soon, or even immediately, allowing Pence to start cleaning up the mess and the Republican party to find a viable presidential candidate for 2020. That's not at all possible, though, with hundreds of prosecutors looking to indict Trump on obstruction charges the moment he leaves office.

Meanwhile, the rabbit hole keeps getting deeper, with Trump poised to drag as many as he can down with him.

[Juvenal]

Read what Rep. Ratcliffe had to say. There is, to date, zero evidence that Ukraine officials were aware that military funds had been withheld making quid pro quo legally impossible. Not even Taylor disputed this fact when directly questioned!

They didn't know at the time of the July 25 phone call, but became aware after the August 28 Politico story, updated August 29, and cited by Ambassador Taylor.

Trump holds up Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia

The Trump administration is slow-walking $250 million in military assistance to Ukraine, annoying lawmakers and advocates who argue the funding is critical to keeping Russia at bay.

President Donald Trump asked his national security team to review the funding program, known as the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, in order to ensure the money is being used in the best interest of the United States, a senior administration official told POLITICO on Wednesday.

Contrary to your assertion, Taylor's opening statement referenced not only general Ukrainian awareness, but the actual Ukrainian official who contacted him about Ukrainian concerns about the withheld aid.

The same day that I sent my cable to the Secretary, August 29, Mr. Yermak contacted me and was very concerned, asking about the withheld security assistance. The hold that the White House had placed on the assistance had just been made public that day in a Politico story. At that point, I was embarrassed that I could give him no explanation for why it was withheld.

[Juvenal]

Ukraine Knew of Aid Freeze by August, Undermining Trump Defense
Top officials were told in early August about the delay of $391 million in security assistance, undercutting a chief argument President Trump has used to deny any quid pro quo.

By Andrew E. Kramer and Kenneth P. Vogel
Oct. 23, 2019
Updated 12:12 p.m. ET

Apparently, Ukrainians were made aware of the aid freeze almost immediately after the July 25 call, and Mulvaney has some more explaining to do.

[Mountain Man]

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...hole-argument/

[firstfloor]

[Mountain Man]

Now this is interesting...

U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylora close relationship with the Atlantic CouncilThe Atlantic Council is funded by and works in partnership with Burisma, the natural gas company at the center of allegations regarding Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden.

In addition to a direct relationship with the Atlantic Council, Taylor for the last nine years also served as a senior adviser to the U.S.-Ukraine Business Council (USUBC), which has co-hosted events with the Atlantic Council and has participated in events co-hosted jointly by the Atlantic Council and Burisma.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...ed-think-tank/

[Juvenal]

Now this is interesting...

[...]

The Atlantic Council is funded by and works in partnership with Burisma, the natural gas company at the center of allegations regarding Joe Biden and his son, Hunter Biden.

Burisma is listed as a funder for the Atlantic Council, but is not in the top ranks of donors, and cannot be reasonably seen as exercising meaningful influence considering its minor position and the wide variety of funding sources.

Atlantic Council / Honor roll of contributorsBurisma