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Did David Rape Bathsheba?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    Actually it does state David's location, and that he was on the roof of "the king's house". So regardless of whether it was the actual palace, or something like a separate house he likely had a really good view of the surrounding area.

    2 Samuel 11:2 Now when evening came David arose from his bed and walked around on the roof of the king’s house, and from the roof he saw a woman bathing; and the woman was very beautiful in appearance.
    Yes, I know *David* was on the palace roof. The text does not specify that *Bathsheba* was on a roof, unless I missed it.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

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    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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    • #17
      I think this CT article makes good points. In particular, it addresses the irrelevance of the argument that it did not technically qualify as "rape" under the standards of OT Law.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Federalist.

      Nationalist Christian.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

      Justice for Matthew Perna!

      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
        Yes, I know *David* was on the palace roof. The text does not specify that *Bathsheba* was on a roof, unless I missed it.
        I don't know how I so completely misread you.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          I think this CT article makes good points. In particular, it addresses the irrelevance of the argument that it did not technically qualify as "rape" under the standards of OT Law.
          This CT article doesn't represent a proper use of scripture-interpreting-scripture. Even if we were to accept this process of re-interpreting 2Sam11-12 in light of the NT, i disagree with the authors' interpretations of the Sermon on the Mount.

          Worse yet, the article speaks of the "imbalance of power" represented in the parable of the poor man's ewe lamb. As I noted earlier, this is an anachronistic view of the situation. The imbalance of powers is a modern concept applied to boss-worker relationships mostly in America.

          Maybe the article's interpretation would be okay if we were only given the parable up to verse 8 before going to the new chapter. Instead, we are constrained to the way David's mind interpret things -- it was about despicable behavior of the rich man. If the parable wasn't intended on generating strong emotions, it seems the parable could have said that a neighbor had two lambs took the other guy's only ewe lamb. (i'm not really able to express the role of the parable as clearly as I would have hoped.)

          The article also has an error in the author's equating of the pastor with the rich man. At least, this comparison shouldn't be descriptive of the typical pastor.

          Aside from the many flaws of the article, it is true that people shouldn't have extra-marital affairs. I agree with that point.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Well, the whole focus is on David. It doesn't say "the thing David and Bathsheba had done displeased the Lord".
            I think that's because "the thing David had done" was primarily his blood-guilt in murdering Uriah. The thing with Bathsheba was just his earlier sin that he escalated in trying to cover up.
            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
              I like a lot of what you quoted here.

              It doesn't seem likely that Bathsheba was bathing to be seen by David. We don't have clear evidence to suggest that .

              There are some points that may not be so strong though.

              First, Uriah shouldn't be in battle if had recently been married (Deu 24:5). They probably had not succeeded in having a child due to other reasons.

              Another issue relates to the attempt to understand much about Bathsheba from the story of the ewe lamb. This parable wasn't focused on showing the innocence of Bathsheba but rather was about leading David to repentance and restoration. The emphasis overall was David's relationship with God while showing the effects that sin can have, despite such forgiveness.

              For the reasons found in an earlier post, Bathsheba seemed to be willing to cover up the affair. She too was disciplined in this death of her son.

              She may have lived decently apart from this affair but she wasn't a passive victim either.
              The story is definitely about David's repentance however it seems from a cultural study that if the king made a request, you didn't refuse it. Coercion is still on the table.
              A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
              George Bernard Shaw

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                The story is definitely about David's repentance however it seems from a cultural study that if the king made a request, you didn't refuse it. Coercion is still on the table.
                we just don't have evidence of that in the scripture.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                  we just don't have evidence of that in the scripture.
                  Do we have evidence of anyone other than David being accused of sinning in the matter?
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Federalist.

                  Nationalist Christian.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                  Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                  Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                  Justice for Matthew Perna!

                  Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                    Do we have evidence of anyone other than David being accused of sinning in the matter?
                    I'm not sure what you are asking. If you are talking about things that other people did, this doesn't pinpoint what happened in the situation of David and Bathsheba.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                      I'm not sure what you are asking. If you are talking about things that other people did, this doesn't pinpoint what happened in the situation of David and Bathsheba.
                      The context is this:

                      Originally Posted by Catholicity
                      The story is definitely about David's repentance however it seems from a cultural study that if the king made a request, you didn't refuse it. Coercion is still on the table.


                      and

                      Originally Posted by mikewhitney
                      we just don't have evidence of that in the scripture.


                      Bathsheba was never accused of being a willing accomplice. David is the only one whose sin is confronted.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                        The context is this:

                        Originally Posted by Catholicity
                        The story is definitely about David's repentance however it seems from a cultural study that if the king made a request, you didn't refuse it. Coercion is still on the table.


                        and

                        Originally Posted by mikewhitney
                        we just don't have evidence of that in the scripture.


                        Bathsheba was never accused of being a willing accomplice. David is the only one whose sin is confronted.
                        David was the focus of the story; you're making an argument from silence.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                          we just don't have evidence of that in the scripture.
                          One doesn't need scriptural evidence to establish something so obvious, though.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                          • #28
                            We don't know what exactly happened or what Bathsheba was thinking. Does it matter? At best, David was being a creep for committing adultery with one of his subjects and having her loyal husband killed.
                            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                              We don't know what exactly happened or what Bathsheba was thinking. Does it matter? At best, David was being a creep for committing adultery with one of his subjects and having her loyal husband killed.
                              We can certainly separate the actions of the two people. Bathsheba shouldn't have been bathing where she could be seen. And David was obviously wrong nonetheless.

                              To use an analogy, in modern society, rape is not acceptable even if the woman is walking down the street naked.
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                We can certainly separate the actions of the two people. Bathsheba shouldn't have been bathing where she could be seen. And David was obviously wrong nonetheless.

                                To use an analogy, in modern society, rape is not acceptable even if the woman is walking down the street naked.
                                Are you definitively calling it rape here?
                                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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