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Whistleblower identified

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It's worth pointing out that one of those who spoke to Trump and disputes Vindman's "interpretation" is President Zelinsky.
    It is also worth pointing out that there is no evidence that military aid was tied to an investigation. And Vindman offered nothing more than opinion...

    "It is improper for the President of the United States to demand a foreign government investigate a US citizen and political opponent," Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman said in his opening remarks on the third day of public impeachment hearings. "It was also clear that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the 2016 election, the Bidens and Burisma, it would be interpreted as a partisan play."

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/polit...y-3/index.html
    Where exactly did Trump demand anything? And why would an investigation be partisan? It could have just as easily cleared the Bidens.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      It is also worth pointing out that there is no evidence that military aid was tied to an investigation. And Vindman offered nothing more than opinion...


      Where exactly did Trump demand anything? And why would an investigation be partisan? It could have just as easily cleared the Bidens.
      No evidence ... and the US tanks were not in Bagdhad!

      Vindman offered firsthand evidence that - especially when taken with other first hand reports - supports the belief Trump was engaged in extorting Ukraine into investigating Biden's son.

      The use of the word demand will be mocked by those such as yourself, but "you ain't gettin' no stinkin' aid till I get my investigations" is what was ACTUALLY being said on that call (and prior and subsequent conversations) - and 'demand' is a fair characterization of what that is.
      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-19-2019, 01:18 PM.
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        It is also worth pointing out that there is no evidence that military aid was tied to an investigation. And Vindman offered nothing more than opinion...


        Where exactly did Trump demand anything? And why would an investigation be partisan? It could have just as easily cleared the Bidens.
        Right... if Joe and Hunter did nothing wrong then why don't the Democrats want them to be investigated? Isn't that what they say about Trump?

        As for Vindman's claim that it was a "demand", when the same question was put to Williams, she pointed to the transcript and said that Trump was asking for a favor. Of course Vindman's claim depends on the ridiculous talking point that Ukraine and Zelensky are somehow subservient to Trump, and that when a superior asks for a "favor", it is assumed to be a demand.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          What's with all these accusatory attacks, Charles? I thought you didn't like those.
          I pointed to what he had actually done but it seems you missed that...
          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            No evidence ... and the US tanks were not in Bagdhad!

            Vindman offered firsthand evidence that - especially when taken with other first hand reports - supports the belief Trump was engaged in extorting Ukraine into investigating Biden's son.
            Where Jim? We have the transcript. Show where Trump was demanding or extorting.

            The use of the word demand will be mocked by those such as yourself, but "you ain't gettin' no stinkin' aid till I get my investigations" is what was ACTUALLY being said on that call (and prior and subsequent conversations) - and 'demand' is a fair characterization of what that is.
            Who are you going to believe Vindman or the President of the Ukraine? And show me exactly where Trump tied aid to the investigation. And remember Jim, Ukraine did get the aid without the investigations. Most of you conveniently over look that FACT.

            Here is the transcript, be specific Jim, where is aid tied to investigations, or where he was extorting:


            https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/polit...all/index.html
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              Where Jim? We have the transcript. Show where Trump was demanding or extorting.
              Representative Ratcliffe pinned Vindman down on that exact point during the closed hearings and asked him for an exact quote from the transcript where Trump demanded that Ukraine investigate Joe Biden. Vindman spent several minutes looking over the transcript and came up empty.

              Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-19-2019, 01:55 PM.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Representative Ratcliffe pinned Vindman down on that exact point during the closed hearings and asked him for an exact quote from the transcript where Trump demanded that Ukraine investigate Joe Biden. Vindman spent several minutes looking over the transcript and came up empty.

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]40977[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]40978[/ATTACH]
                https://theconservativetreehouse.com...omment-page-2/
                No duh!
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                  I pointed to what he had actually done but it seems you missed that...
                  You painted what he had done in the most scurrilous light possible. I certainly did not miss that.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Where Jim? We have the transcript. Show where Trump was demanding or extorting.



                    Who are you going to believe Vindman or the President of the Ukraine? And show me exactly where Trump tied aid to the investigation. And remember Jim, Ukraine did get the aid without the investigations. Most of you conveniently over look that FACT.

                    Here is the transcript, be specific Jim, where is aid tied to investigations, or where he was extorting:


                    https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/polit...all/index.html
                    For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                    Since it is not printed in giant crayon, I doubt I can point to anything you would accept.



                    Look you are approaching this thing with the mentality of a child. The evidence is clear but it crosses several different testimonies and a good bit of time. It is something that becomes clear looking at the proponderance of the evidence, not something that is irrefutable as a consequence of any single statement.

                    For those not approaching this situation in such a naive fashion, the core elements of the extortion are found in the juxtaposition of talk about aid and the request for a favor coupled with the myopic focus on Biden (and apparently Burisma).
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-19-2019, 03:18 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Since it is not printed in giant crayon, I doubt I can point to anything you would accept.
                      Neither could Vindman.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • THIS JUST IN!!!!!

                        Democrat Focus Group resonates with bribery "Trump is a jackass".

                        The Senate will immediately begin deliberations on removal!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                          Since it is not printed in giant crayon, I doubt I can point to anything you would accept.



                          Look you are approaching this thing with the mentality of a child. The evidence is clear but it crosses several different testimonies and a good bit of time. It is something that becomes clear looking at the proponderance of the evidence, not something that is irrefutable as a consequence of any single statement.
                          That is just false Jim, no "witness" until about an hour ago was actually on the call. It was all second and third hand info. And I will ask again:Ukraine did get the aid without the investigations. Yes or no?

                          For those not approaching this situation in such a naive fashion, the core elements of the extortion are found in the juxtaposition of talk about aid and the request for a favor coupled with the myopic focus on Biden (and apparently Burisma).
                          See now you are divining motives that the President of the Ukraine categorically denied.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            That is just false Jim, no "witness" until about an hour ago was actually on the call. It was all second and third hand info. And I will ask again:Ukraine did get the aid without the investigations. Yes or no?
                            It isn't a yes or no answer seer. For you to characterize it that way is ignorance or manipulation.

                            The answer is: They did not get the aid until the whistle blower exposed Trump's scheme.


                            See now you are divining motives that the President of the Ukraine categorically denied.
                            I don't have to 'divine' them. It is clear he withheld the aid in lieu of a promise of investigations, and only released it when it became clear his scheme was about to be exposed. And we have multiple witnesses to that fact.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Republicans: "Tell us, Mr. Vindman, who did you speak to about the call?"

                              Vindman: "Well, let's see, I spoke to Kent, and a fellow in the CIA named--"

                              Schiff: "Stop! Don't say the whistle blower's name! Oh, but neither of us knows who he is, so how could I know you were about to say his name? Ha ha! How silly of me. But don't you dare identify the whistle blower by saying the name of the other guy you talked to who we can't possibly know is the whistle blower!"
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                The answer is: They did not get the aid until the whistle blower exposed Trump's scheme.


                                I don't have to 'divine' them. It is clear he withheld the aid in lieu of a promise of investigations, and only released it when it became clear his scheme was about to be exposed. And we have multiple witnesses to that fact.
                                Multiple witnesses have testified that nobody in the Ukrainian government had any idea the aid had been temporarily withheld, and Trump never mentioned it in the phonecall. Many of those same witnesses have also testified that they never heard from Trump about why the aid was temporarily suspended, and in fact they weren't even aware it had been until they read about it in a Politico story published several weeks after the phonecall.

                                Come on, man, even you have to admit that the case against Trump is pretty weak.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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