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Whistleblower identified

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And we know based on Sondland's own testimony that it was merely his presumption, and that he really can't say where he got the idea from. Even more curious is that his later recollection contradicts what was "crystal clear" to him at the time.
    Of course he really can't say where the presumption came from, that would be telling the truth. Besides, he can presume all he wants, but you don't convey that message, the quid pro quo, on a presumption. Everybody knows that, even you.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      I thought the whole reason that the hearings are secret was so that witnesses couldn't hear the testimony of others. FWIU Sondland decided to alter his testimony so that it aligned with what the MSM (who also hasn't heard anyone testify) is reporting. Being so easily swayed is a sure sign that he's not a very credible witness. I mean, what's the next thing he'll change so that it now matches up with what he is currently hearing?
      Posted at 5:47 a.m., today. That's too early to be on your second cup of coffee, so I'm assuming it was before your second cup of coffee. Always wait to post until after that second cup of coffee.



      Sondland changed his testimony after the initial transcripts were released. We have eight of them now. It's been in all the papers.
      Background reading:

      Mr. Sondland’s reversal offers a potentially critical piece of evidence to investigators trying to determine whether Mr. Trump abused his power.

      Late-night show hosts mocked Mr. Sondland, saying he had reversed his testimony after remembering “one important detail: that I don’t want to go to jail for perjury.”

      Hmm. So that's where that line came from.

      All I know about late night variety shows is what I read in the papers. There's a lot more interesting reading lately.

      This is Sunday, 11/10.

      On Monday, 11/4, the transcripts from McKinley and Yovanovich were released.
      On Tuesday, 11/5, the transcripts from Volker and Sondland were released, and Sondland revised his testimony.
      On Wednesday, 11/6, the transcript from Taylor was released.
      On Thursday, 11/7, the transcript from Kent was released.
      On Friday, 11/8, the transcripts from Hill and Vindman were released.

      In other news, House republicans are asking the whistleblower to testify, because FWIU, the argument that he had nothing more than second-hand hearsay to offer doesn't matter anymore.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
        Of course he really can't say where the presumption came from, that would be telling the truth. Besides, he can presume all he wants, but you don't convey that message, the quid pro quo, on a presumption. Everybody knows that, even you.
        So he's telling the truth... but not telling the truth?



        But then when you read his testimony, he says that he told his Ukrainian counterpart that the aid was "likely" (his exact word) tied to an anti-corruption statement, meaning he didn't express any certainty. In fact, the only time he expressed any certainty about quid pro quo was in his text message to Bill Taylor where he said that the President was "crystal clear" that there wasn't to be one.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Sondland: "I did not know (and still do not know) when, why, or by whom the aid was suspended."
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • The Republicans want to question Eric Ciaramella about his contacting Schiff and just how much "help" was he.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              [ATTACH=CONFIG]40778[/ATTACH]


              If I tell you about a conversation I heard that is hearsay
              Rogue. If is tell you what I heard a person say, that is eyewitness testimony as regards what was said and hearsay as to whether or not the subject that was discussed in the conversation is true

              So if the question is: did Sondland say the call was tied to the investigations, it is eyewitness testimony. If the question is "was the aid tied to the investigation", then it is hearsay.

              Sondland telling the Ukrainians that is the situation carries with it the fact the ukrainians knew or believed the aid was tied to the investigations. ERGO, we have eyewitness testimony from both hill and sondland, that the Ukrainians knew, were told, that the aid was tied to the investigations.

              Thus we know the ukrainians were led to believe that they had to commit to the investigations to get the aid.

              Since we have the Transcript of Trump also asking for the 'favor' in sequence with the mention of the aid in the call, we know Trump was also participating in the overall connecting of aid and investigations.

              We have the hill July 10 meeting where Sondland tells the ukrainians the call itself requires a commitment to the investigations. We have the president on the call asking for the favor of the investigations wrt the aid. And we have sondland again telling the ukrainians the aid is held and contingent on the announcement of the investigations.

              And that is just 3 events out of thousands of pages of testimony about this crazed story of President Trump, Giuliani and the gang as they tried to get dirt on Biden through the Ukrainians by using this aid as leverage.
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-10-2019, 11:50 AM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                Sondland telling the Ukrainians that is the situation carries with it the fact the ukrainians knew or believed the aid was tied to the investigations. ERGO, we have eyewitness testimony from both hill and sondland, that the Ukrainians knew, were told, that the aid was tied to the investigations.
                First of all, Sondland testified that "I did not know (and still do not know) when, why, or by whom the aid was suspended."

                Secondly, according to his testimony, he only suggested that it was a possibility based on a presumption, indicating that he did not have any direct knowledge of a quid pro quo:

                "I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks. I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement."

                And really, who knows what Sondland actually said since he seems to have trouble remembering what he said or did during that period. Maybe he'll come up with another "correction" to his testimony to make things ever more muddled.

                The only thing we know for certain is that he told Bill Taylor at the time that the President was "crystal clear" that there was to be no quid pro quo, so whatever his presumption is based on, it certainly didn't come from Trump. If Sondland made a bad call based on a false presumption then surely that's on him.

                Then there's Vindman who disagreed with Trump as a matter of policy but said, "I did not know whether there was a crime or anything of the nature," and when pressed to support his claim that Trump demanded that the Ukraine government investigate Biden could not find anything in the transcript to latch onto even after spending several minutes looking over it in the hearing. And, like Sondland, his testimony is full of opinion being passed off as fact with phrases like "I did not think it was proper", "I just wrote it the way I kind of felt it", "I guess in my mind", and "That's just the way it seemed to me" (required reading). Not to mention his pretense of showing up to testify in full uniform when it had been his habit for years to wear a suit and tie to work.

                Then we have Fiona Hill with her "I heard from a guy who heard from a guy" hearsay.

                Bottom line: there is zero direct evidence that the Trump administration did anything illegal or even improper. And that's based only on what Schiff has condescended to release. Who knows what exculpatory evidence he's sitting on.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  I thought the whole reason that the hearings are secret was so that witnesses couldn't hear the testimony of others.
                  That was one of the reasons, the other reason being to keep the republicans from turning the hearings into a circus. That's what they will be trying to do now that the hearings are open. Watch!

                  FWIU Sondland decided to alter his testimony so that it aligned with what the MSM (who also hasn't heard anyone testify) is reporting. Being so easily swayed is a sure sign that he's not a very credible witness. I mean, what's the next thing he'll change so that it now matches up with what he is currently hearing?
                  Right you are, he isn't credible, but he doesn't want a prison sentence either. He went first, he lied under oath, then he realized his lies were being contradicted by those who testified after him. He said to himself oh oh, I'd better do a do over, which is when he came up with the "I presumed" and the "I came to understand" arguments. He's still trying to cover up, it's not credible testimony, but it's credible that his testimony is an attempt to cover for someone.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    The Republicans want to question Eric Ciaramella about his contacting Schiff and just how much "help" was he.
                    And lying Adam Schiff doesn't want the truth out so he is denying them the right to question the main witness.

                    What does Adam Schiff have to hide. hmm?
                    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 11-10-2019, 02:19 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      The Republicans want to question Eric Ciaramella about his contacting Schiff and just how much "help" was he.
                      Lemme get this latest conspiracy theory straight. So Schiff, using his own super-secret spies who were in on the call, or knew about the call, or used a honey trap or something or other to find out about the call, is supposed to have primed the whistleblower with the contents of his complaint, so he could launch an investigation into what he already knew?

                      Well, it's a nice change of pace from the Hillary hit squads, but while we're usually great with crazy, it's getting all full in here.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                        Lemme get this latest conspiracy theory straight. So Schiff, using his own super-secret spies who were in on the call, or knew about the call, or used a honey trap or something or other to find out about the call, is supposed to have primed the whistleblower with the contents of his complaint, so he could launch an investigation into what he already knew?

                        Well, it's a nice change of pace from the Hillary hit squads, but while we're usually great with crazy, it's getting all full in here.
                        If you're going to burn straw men, at least have the decency to open the window to clear the air afterwards.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          If you're going to burn straw men, at least have the decency to open the window to clear the air afterwards.
                          He's not burning straw men, he's exposing rogue's straw man. The complaint, the transcript, and the evidence backing up the complaint, makes the compaintant himself/herself irrelevant. Straw man!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]40778[/ATTACH]


                            If I tell you about a conversation I heard that is hearsay
                            And if the wife is found stabbed and all the evidence points to "D" being the stabber then the substance of the story is no longer in question.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Well it can be “reasonably proven that Trump's *main* "quo" was *personal* benefit, as opposed to the legitimate "quo" of dealing with prior corruption”, because the ONLY corruption with which he was concerned was that which served his own personal benefit.
                              Other than mind-reading, what is the evidence that personal gain was his main reason for pursuing investigation of Biden?
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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                              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

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                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Group think, tribalism, not ever wanting to admit that their side, thus themselves, could be guilty of anything. A sort of blind patriotism to the team.
                                Exactly. We're hoping you Democrats quit doing that soon.
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