Originally posted by Cow Poke
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My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThey are not under Trump or Obama.
Please forgive me for not being more explicit. Of course they are not "under Trump or Obama" in that manner, so I'll reword my sentence just for you.
It was interesting seeing the "star witnesses" reluctantly agree that things in Ukraine are better militarily working with the Trump administration than they were when working with the Obama administration.
Their government has gotten much better with zelensky who campaigned on a anti-corruption platform and appears to be trying to make good on that, despite the best efforts of Trump/Giulanni et al. But they have also been under attack from Russia and have lost many lives in that fight ... which was hindered by Trump's hold on the aid ... and so there is that.
Happy?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThey are not under Trump or Obama. Their government has gotten much better with zelensky who campaigned on a anti-corruption platform and appears to be trying to make good on that, despite the best efforts of Trump/Giulanni et al. But they have also been under attack from Russia and have lost many lives in that fight ... which was hindered by Trump's hold on the aid ... and so there is that.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNo pix. There are individuals involved, and with news organizations, literally thousands of them. So your generalizations, even if they have valid basis in fact, can't be tossed out to cover broad swaths as you have wrt the specific wrongdoing associated with Donald Trump.1) His actions are his own
2) they are not mitigated by the fact others may have committed similar acts
3) the actions of individual members of large organizations like the MSM cannot be extended w/o prejudice to all such members, or even most such members.Further, what I'm reacting to is not their interpretations of the facts, but the facts themselves. I'm observing the facts, and observing the reactions of the various news organizations and politicians to them. And while I would not claim any specific news outlet is 'completely unbiased' in their reporting, the fundamental issues are being reported most consistently in line with the facts as we have them by what you like to call 'the Main Stream Media', and the most irrational spin is being put on them by certain republicans and certain conservative news outlets - like brietbart.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 11-14-2019, 09:23 AM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIs that what Obama meant when he told Putin that he'd have "more flexibility" after the election?
The Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Kiev.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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I'm not ignoring anything. If they are corrupt, they should be held accountable. OTOH, it doesn't affect the reliability of the facts I'm looking at as regards Trump's actions. They are coming from multiple independent sources - including the president - and they tend to say the same thing within the scope of their exposure to the events
IOW, We can evaluate the facts and sources as they relate to the Trump Ukraine scandal independently from whatever participation ABC/NBC may have had in delaying Donald's friend Epstein's conviction.
The rest of your post just isn't worth responding to at this point. If you can rephrase your points with out the hysteria, I'll reconsider replying to them.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-14-2019, 10:18 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSpin spin spin...
The facts include Trump allowing certain kinds of miltiary aid, but are also offset in terms of lives lost to the Russian conflict by his bargaining and withholding that aid. And what has made their lives better the last 3 years vs the previous 8 - assuming that is a fair assessment. Is it the direct and differing actions of the two US presidents, or is it more related to the transition to Zelensky and the ongoing (cross adminstration) efforts to help root out corruption that owe their origins to efforts by the Obama administration and before?
My reply is simply pointing out the facts you are leaving out of your 'spin' in order to paint the particular picture you want to paint.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-14-2019, 10:29 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Postfacts, facts, facts.
Your perspective on anything to do with Trump is so warped that I'm not sure you'd recognize a straight fact if it was right in front of you.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhat you call "facts" is nothing more than second-hand hearsay at best, which is legally worthless, but you try to prop it up as compelling, and then when the real facts contradict your narrative -- for instance, the multiple first-hand sources within the Ukrainian government, including President Zelensky himself, saying that there was no pressure or bribery from the Trump administration -- you bend over backwards to dismiss it. In other words, spin.
Your perspective on anything to do with Trump is so warped that I'm not sure you'd recognize a straight fact if it was right in front of you.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAnd again, failing to find a valid argument...Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Charles View PostHappens a lot on tweb. And as a result of this post some might provide even more statements to prove that point.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt sounds like Nancy is trying to prepare "walking back" room, claiming they don't even know if there's gonna be a vote on impeachment.
(heard on the radio while driving, looking for a source)Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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