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Thread: Whistleblower identified

  1. #381
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    "Presumptions" and "I came to understands" are simply ways of shielding the source out of which those beliefs were conveyed. Use your brain once in a while, MM. One doesn't just "presume" or "come to understand" the details of what someone else wants. Sondland didn't just presume that the president wanted investigations into the Bidens and crowdstrike, he didn't just presume that they wouldn't get their desperately needed military aid unless publicly opening investigations against the Bidens. Besides that, he at first denied he even knew or conveyed any such message to Ukraine only to revise his testimony after hearing the contradictory testimony of everyone else concerned who testified under oath. Don't be such a dumbell!
    "I came to understands" is a way of saying that you changed your mind.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  2. Amen Cow Poke, RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  3. #382
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    "I came to understands" is a way of saying that you changed your mind.
    And it's a well known fact that witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, and the further away you get chronologically from the event under examination the less reliable that testimony is -- particularly when it significantly differs from testimony given at the time of the event.

    In many ways, it's a way of not saying "my lawyer coached me to say...."
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  4. Amen NorrinRadd, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  5. #383
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And it's a well known fact that witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, and the further away you get chronologically from the event under examination the less reliable that testimony is -- particularly when it significantly differs from testimony given at the time of the event.

    In many ways, it's a way of not saying "my lawyer coached me to say...."
    Many a case has imploded spectacularly because of witness' testimony differing wildly from the statements they gave the police

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  6. #384
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Many a case has imploded spectacularly because of witness' testimony differing wildly from the statements they gave the police
    "Goes to credibility, your honor!"

    Or, more harshly, "So, should the jury believe you were lying THEN, or you're lying NOW?"
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  7. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  8. #385
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Considering the content of your posts over the past few months I'm no longer certain that you are capable of determining what actual evidence is. Don't believe me? Go back and look through some of it. You have consistently conflated rumors, suppositions and opinions with facts and evidence. You never would have done something like this previously.
    How Ironic. Guess you haven't seen the evidence coming from the testimony of those involved and who knew what was going on.

  9. #386
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    "I came to understands" is a way of saying that you changed your mind.
    Changed his mind based on what, rogue?

  10. #387
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And it's a well known fact that witness testimony is notoriously unreliable, and the further away you get chronologically from the event under examination the less reliable that testimony is -- particularly when it significantly differs from testimony given at the time of the event.

    In many ways, it's a way of not saying "my lawyer coached me to say...."
    Sondland changed his testimony only after hearing the contradictory testimony of honorable witnesses.

  11. #388
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Sondland changed his testimony only after hearing the contradictory testimony of honorable witnesses.
    You forgot "in my opinion".
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  12. Amen NorrinRadd, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  13. #389
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Here's a look at Sondland's actual words:
    The change in Sondland's testimony has a much simpler and more credible explanation than a million dollar supporter of Trump being persuaded to make something up or change his mind about something that was vague or ill defined (Trump's purpose in the investigation). Fiona Hill described the conversation he 'remembered' in detail in her testimony. If that description were to validated by other witnesses, other sources, then Sondland would be guilty of perjury. And so, the most likely explanation is that he realized he'd better 'remember' the conversation before he could be proven to be hiding it.

    This goes to guilty knowledge. Why wouldn't Sondland just leave it alone if it was some nebulous, maybe true, maybe not true divination of Trump's motive? Because he knows it happened, he knows it took place, and he just can't take the chance other people or sources will back up Hill's testimony. The cost to him would be too great.

    And by his confirmation of her testimony, we have two witnesses to the conversation, one of whom was quite clearly a staunch Trump supporter. So we have clear evidence the money was conditioned on the investigation of the Bidens, and that that fact was made absolutely clear to Ukraine by Sondland.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  14. Amen Starlight amen'd this post.
  15. #390
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    The change in Sondland's testimony has a much simpler and more credible explanation than a million dollar supporter of Trump being persuaded to make something up or change his mind about something that was vague or ill defined (Trump's purpose in the investigation). Fiona Hill described the conversation he 'remembered' in detail in her testimony. If that description were to validated by other witnesses, other sources, then Sondland would be guilty of perjury. And so, the most likely explanation is that he realized he'd better 'remember' the conversation before he could be proven to be hiding it.

    This goes to guilty knowledge. Why wouldn't Sondland just leave it alone if it was some nebulous, maybe true, maybe not true divination of Trump's motive? Because he knows it happened, he knows it took place, and he just can't take the chance other people or sources will back up Hill's testimony. The cost to him would be too great.

    And by his confirmation of her testimony, we have two witnesses to the conversation, one of whom was quite clearly a staunch Trump supporter. So we have clear evidence the money was conditioned on the investigation of the Bidens, and that that fact was made absolutely clear to Ukraine by Sondland.
    Yep, what this mega-donor to Trump remembered, was that he didn't want to go to prison for perjury. So once he saw others were telling the truth rather than lying to protect Trump, he decided that he should do the same.

  16. Amen Tassman, JimL amen'd this post.

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