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Thread: Whistleblower identified

  1. #541
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It was interesting seeing the "star witnesses" reluctantly agree that things in Ukraine are better under Trump than they were under Obama.
    They are not under Trump or Obama. Their government has gotten much better with zelensky who campaigned on a anti-corruption platform and appears to be trying to make good on that, despite the best efforts of Trump/Giulanni et al. But they have also been under attack from Russia and have lost many lives in that fight ... which was hindered by Trump's hold on the aid ... and so there is that.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  2. Amen Roy amen'd this post.
  3. #542
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    They are not under Trump or Obama.


    Please forgive me for not being more explicit. Of course they are not "under Trump or Obama" in that manner, so I'll reword my sentence just for you.

    It was interesting seeing the "star witnesses" reluctantly agree that things in Ukraine are better militarily working with the Trump administration than they were when working with the Obama administration.

    Their government has gotten much better with zelensky who campaigned on a anti-corruption platform and appears to be trying to make good on that, despite the best efforts of Trump/Giulanni et al. But they have also been under attack from Russia and have lost many lives in that fight ... which was hindered by Trump's hold on the aid ... and so there is that.
    Trump Gave Ukraine What Obama Withheld

    Happy?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. #543
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    They are not under Trump or Obama. Their government has gotten much better with zelensky who campaigned on a anti-corruption platform and appears to be trying to make good on that, despite the best efforts of Trump/Giulanni et al. But they have also been under attack from Russia and have lost many lives in that fight ... which was hindered by Trump's hold on the aid ... and so there is that.
    Spin spin spin...
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #544
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Is that what Obama meant when he told Putin that he'd have "more flexibility" after the election?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  7. #545
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No pix. There are individuals involved, and with news organizations, literally thousands of them. So your generalizations, even if they have valid basis in fact, can't be tossed out to cover broad swaths as you have wrt the specific wrongdoing associated with Donald Trump.
    And yet, what you ignore is many of those in charge are corrupt. NBC and ABC didn’t squash their Epstein stories without it coming from its leaders and management and pointing out there’s thousands of individuals doesn’t magically make that detail go away. Of course, I know you’ll have a thousand excuses to excuse this away and for you to warp my words, so you can attack piles of straw, but do you deny that those in positions of power, at NBC and ABC, are corrupt? Yes or no because it appears those sitting at the wheel house, are pretty darn corrupt.

    1) His actions are his own
    2) they are not mitigated by the fact others may have committed similar acts
    3) the actions of individual members of large organizations like the MSM cannot be extended w/o prejudice to all such members, or even most such members.
    More of your excuses, to hand wave away anything you don’t like. Are those in positions of power, in the MSM corrupt? What does the evidence say? Did they cover up and lie for a pedophile billionaire? Did they go after those exposing their cover up? Have they been caught, red handed, spreading fake and misleading stories?

    Are any of these charges false? Yes or no?

    The issue isn’t the thousands within, it is those in charge, are they corrupt?

    Further, what I'm reacting to is not their interpretations of the facts, but the facts themselves. I'm observing the facts, and observing the reactions of the various news organizations and politicians to them. And while I would not claim any specific news outlet is 'completely unbiased' in their reporting, the fundamental issues are being reported most consistently in line with the facts as we have them by what you like to call 'the Main Stream Media', and the most irrational spin is being put on them by certain republicans and certain conservative news outlets - like brietbart.
    No you’re not Jim, they are playing you like a fiddle and you dance along because it tells you what you want to hear. The same people whining about Trump covered up the flat out rapes of a Hollywood elitist and bury stories involving a billionaire taking little girls for his rich and well connected friends. The same people doing this stuff are the ones telling you that the orange man is bad. Think about that for a second Jim.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 11-14-2019 at 08:23 AM.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  9. #546
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Is that what Obama meant when he told Putin that he'd have "more flexibility" after the election?
    CNN Politics tries hard to "factcheck" a similar claim that Trump provided what Obama denied, but at the very bottom of their article, they begrudgingly admit....

    The Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Kiev.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  10. #547
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    And yet, what you ignore is many of those in charge are corrupt. NBC and ABC didn’t squash their Epstein stories without it coming from its leaders and management and pointing out there’s thousands of individuals doesn’t magically make that detail go away. Of course, I know you’ll have a thousand excuses to excuse this away and for you to warp my words, so you can attack piles of straw, but do you deny that those in positions of power, at NBC and ABC, are corrupt? Yes or no because it appears those sitting at the wheel house, are pretty darn corrupt.
    I'm not ignoring anything. If they are corrupt, they should be held accountable. OTOH, it doesn't affect the reliability of the facts I'm looking at as regards Trump's actions. They are coming from multiple independent sources - including the president - and they tend to say the same thing within the scope of their exposure to the events

    IOW, We can evaluate the facts and sources as they relate to the Trump Ukraine scandal independently from whatever participation ABC/NBC may have had in delaying Donald's friend Epstein's conviction.

    The rest of your post just isn't worth responding to at this point. If you can rephrase your points with out the hysteria, I'll reconsider replying to them.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-14-2019 at 09:18 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  11. #548
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Spin spin spin...
    facts, facts, facts. You seem to have the two terms (fact/spin) confused MM. The facts are the raw data, for lack of a better term. "Spin" is a process of selectively chosing and presenting a subset of the facts to cause them to appear to support an alternate conclusion from the one they actually tend to support by the rules of logic.

    The facts include Trump allowing certain kinds of miltiary aid, but are also offset in terms of lives lost to the Russian conflict by his bargaining and withholding that aid. And what has made their lives better the last 3 years vs the previous 8 - assuming that is a fair assessment. Is it the direct and differing actions of the two US presidents, or is it more related to the transition to Zelensky and the ongoing (cross adminstration) efforts to help root out corruption that owe their origins to efforts by the Obama administration and before?

    My reply is simply pointing out the facts you are leaving out of your 'spin' in order to paint the particular picture you want to paint.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-14-2019 at 09:29 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  12. #549
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    facts, facts, facts.
    What you call "facts" is nothing more than second-hand hearsay at best, which is legally worthless, but you try to prop it up as compelling, and then when the real facts contradict your narrative -- for instance, the multiple first-hand sources within the Ukrainian government, including President Zelensky himself, saying that there was no pressure or bribery from the Trump administration -- you bend over backwards to dismiss it. In other words, spin.

    Your perspective on anything to do with Trump is so warped that I'm not sure you'd recognize a straight fact if it was right in front of you.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  13. #550
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    What you call "facts" is nothing more than second-hand hearsay at best, which is legally worthless, but you try to prop it up as compelling, and then when the real facts contradict your narrative -- for instance, the multiple first-hand sources within the Ukrainian government, including President Zelensky himself, saying that there was no pressure or bribery from the Trump administration -- you bend over backwards to dismiss it. In other words, spin.

    Your perspective on anything to do with Trump is so warped that I'm not sure you'd recognize a straight fact if it was right in front of you.
    And again, failing to find a valid argument from the data, you resort to attacking the man.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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