In China, every day is Kristallnacht

[Juvenal]

In China, every day is Kristallnacht
By Fred Hiatt
November 3 at 11:00 AM

Now.

2019-11-03_17-10-05.jpg
Satellite images via Google Earth

v. then.

2019-11-03_17-09-39.jpg
Satellite image analysis by Uyghurism.com/Bahram Sintash

Hiatt is the Post's editorial page editor. Sintash is, well ...

Demolishing Faith: The Destruction and Desecration of Uyghur Mosques and Shrines

[Cow Poke]

wow

[seer]

They fear religion, what do you expect from a Communist country? Human rights?

[Juvenal]

wow

They fear religion, what do you expect from a Communist country? Human rights?

The motivations are one thing, and the methods are another. I've been following this story for some time now, and what's most remarkable is how difficult it's been to get any story at all out of Xinjiang. Official counts have thousands up to tens of thousands where other accounts speak of up to a million of these Uighurs in what amount to concentration camps. There are pics of city streets ...

2019-11-03_20-36-57.jpg

And then add in facial recognition software, social worth databases, and open source tools used to model and effect behavior at the societal level ... can't remember that one clearly enough to do a google search, but it scared the crap out of me when I first read it a year or so ago.

The really scary thing about big brother is when it's someone else's big brother looking to take advantage of his newfound muscle in new neighborhoods.

[Cow Poke]

The motivations are one thing, and the methods are another. I've been following this story for some time now, and what's most remarkable is how difficult it's been to get any story at all out of Xinjiang. Official counts have thousands up to tens of thousands where other accounts speak of up to a million of these Uighurs in what amount to concentration camps. There are pics of city streets ...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]40677[/ATTACH]

And then add in facial recognition software, social worth databases, and open source tools used to model and effect behavior at the societal level ... can't remember that one clearly enough to do a google search, but it scared the crap out of me when I first read it a year or so ago.

The really scary thing about big brother is when it's someone else's big brother looking to take advantage of his newfound muscle in new neighborhoods.

I knew about significant clamping down from our who missionaries who... um.. are not officially there... had no idea about the Muslims.

[Juvenal]

I knew about significant clamping down from our who missionaries who... um.. are not officially there... had no idea about the Muslims.

Most countries don't have 20 million people.

[seer]

The motivations are one thing, and the methods are another. I've been following this story for some time now, and what's most remarkable is how difficult it's been to get any story at all out of Xinjiang. Official counts have thousands up to tens of thousands where other accounts speak of up to a million of these Uighurs in what amount to concentration camps. There are pics of city streets ...

I have read about the Uighurs, the thing is, none of this is surprising. What is surprising is how we in the West keep supporting this regime through trade... Remember the logic - if we open up markets with China that will foster democratic reforms. It only made it easier and more efficient for them to enforce their totalitarian inclinations.

[demi-conservative]

What is surprising is how we in the West keep supporting this regime through trade... Remember the logic - if we open up markets with China that will foster democratic reforms. It only made it easier and more efficient for them to enforce their totalitarian inclinations.

Part of the real logic is $$$, billions to be made from off-shoring production to China. That's pure capitalism.

[seer]

Part of the real logic is $$$, billions to be made from off-shoring production to China. That's pure capitalism.

That is why I'm a protectionist...

[Mountain Man]

They fear religion, what do you expect from a Communist country? Human rights?

It's somewhat ironic that China is doing to Islam what Islam does to the rest of the world.

[Cow Poke]

Clamping down on missionaries is the runny edge of the egg...

I'm being purposely evasive because Southern Baptists officially do not have 'missionaries' in China, due to China being a "closed country".

What we do have is a large number of 'college professors' teaching English or professionals working in other positions who are in contact with local Christian pastors. They coordinate "house churches", and a very disturbing number of followers simply disappear.

I'd hardly call that a "runny edge", but I also, having looked into this further, and consulting with my "son in the faith" who works directly for the International Mission Board, concede that the Muslim persecution is far worse than I had ever imagined.

[seer]

I'm being purposely evasive because Southern Baptists officially do not have 'missionaries' in China, due to China being a "closed country".

What we do have is a large number of 'college professors' teaching English or professionals working in other positions who are in contact with local Christian pastors. They coordinate "house churches", and a very disturbing number of followers simply disappear.

I'd hardly call that a "runny edge", but I also, having looked into this further, and consulting with my "son in the faith" who works directly for the International Mission Board, concede that the Muslim persecution is far worse than I had ever imagined.

I don't know, some of this may have to do with the 2014 Kunming attack by Uyghurs (supposedly).

[Juvenal]

I'm being purposely evasive because Southern Baptists officially do not have 'missionaries' in China, due to China being a "closed country".

That was obvious.

What we do have is a large number of 'college professors' teaching English or professionals working in other positions who are in contact with local Christian pastors. They coordinate "house churches", and a very disturbing number of followers simply disappear.

That wasn't. Thanks.

That's very disturbing, not least because you can't really know whether someone has "disappeared," of their own volition, or "was disappeared," by the state, and you're left calculating statistics, asking if "this number" says "that disappearance" was involuntary.

I'd hardly call that a "runny edge", but I also, having looked into this further, and consulting with my "son in the faith" who works directly for the International Mission Board, concede that the Muslim persecution is far worse than I had ever imagined.

I hesitated to even post the issue here, because there are bound to be folks who think tearing down mosques, especially those newly constructed, or even under construction, is no more than just deserts. Especially with populations closely aligned with the 'stans, where vastly worse outrages have been committed against world cultural heritage sites.

The pictures of bulldozed cemeteries was my personal tipping point.

Now.

2019-11-04_08-13-08.jpg
Satellite images via Google Earth.

And then.

2019-11-04_08-12-40.jpg
The site of Sultanim cemetery in Hotan, Xinjiang, in December, 2018 and March 2019.

[seer]

This is happening to Christians also, to a lesser degree...



https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nslation-bible

[Cow Poke]

That's very disturbing, not least because you can't really know whether someone has "disappeared," of their own volition, or "was disappeared," by the state, and you're left calculating statistics, asking if "this number" says "that disappearance" was involuntary.

Our IMB "associates" work with local pastors and lay people. The "disappeared" factor is compounded by the fact that, when the local pastor goes to check on the missing, there will be a new family living in the house or apartment, and the new family will be very much pro-government.

I hesitated to even post the issue here, because there are bound to be folks who think tearing down mosques, especially those newly constructed, or even under construction, is no more than just deserts. Especially with populations closely aligned with the 'stans, where vastly worse outrages have been committed against world cultural heritage sites.

Yeah, long ago I came to terms with "religious persecution is religious persecution", and I take no comfort in it happening to "them" to a greater deal than to "us".

The pictures of bulldozed cemeteries was my personal tipping point.

I get the importance of cemeteries - I really do. When we were on a mission trip to Poland years ago, we spent two days cleaning out the local Jewish cemetery, which had become overrun with weeds and overgrowth - tombstones and markers had been knocked over and or/broken. A local had told us of the importance of the Jewish cemetery to the Jews, but they are not allowed to be 'among the dead'. We would be clearing the cemetery and uprighting makers and tombstones, and a crowd would form to watch us.

At the end of the first day, as we were leaving the cemetery, an old Polish Jewish woman grabbed me and hugged me and just held onto me weeping.

So, yeah, that's quite sobering.