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Thread: In China, every day is Kristallnacht

  1. #41
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    This is not some of your better comedy.
    This thing has a long and complex history.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terr...China#Xinjiang
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  2. #42
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    This thing has a long and complex history.
    Yes, MUCH longer than the relatively recent attacks on the Twin Towers. I'll be happy to use my mod powers to delete that silly post if you'd like me to.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  3. #43
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yes, MUCH longer than the relatively recent attacks on the Twin Towers. I'll be happy to use my mod powers to delete that silly post if you'd like me to.
    It’s there in the fifth paragraph of the wiki page (link above). I don’t see anything silly about it. But, if you think I am being insensitive, then please remove the offending material.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  4. #44
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    It’s there in the fifth paragraph of the wiki page (link above). I don’t see anything silly about it. But, if you think I am being insensitive, then please remove the offending material.
    Nope - it will be there for posterity as a witness to millions (ok, the 10-12 members and a couple dozen visitors) of Twebbers for time and all eternity (or until our next crash, for which we are about due).
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  5. #45
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    This has been ongoing for decades and decades, but kept low grade for most of the period due to pressure from the U.S. and bad publicity from their earlier campaign in Tibet.

    After 9/11, China was given a green light, and this is where they've come to since.
    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    In the aftermath of the September 11 attacks on New York, and America’s declaration of a “Global War on Terror”, China followed suit and proclaimed its own war on religious extremism and terrorism in Xinjiang, and the region’s descent into violence and repression began. It has reached the scale of cultural genocide.
    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    ... like China wouldn't have cracked down on religious extremism without 9/11...
    China wields as much influence as it can afford to wield, whether it's in autonomous and semi-autonomous regions identified with indigenous religions, like Tibet and Xinjiang, or the former British colony of Hong Kong, or whatever we're going to call the dredged-up bases in the south China sea.

    So do the Brits, or "did" if we're going to be scrupulous, and so do we.

    We've justified our influence as in line with our founders' desires for self-determination, government "by the people and for the people," and for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," reinforced by human rights initiatives and agreements we've succeeded in convincing others adopt as their own, with mixed success in implementation.

    China is focused on the paired interests of public order and prosperity, reinforced by an increasingly despotic government, including recent changes that will likely make President Xi a president-for-life.

  6. #46
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    It is not just Islam Demi - it is anything where the state feels threatened or a loss of control.
    Don't be naive, seer, all states that want to stay in control have to crack down on threats. How did the secession of the southern states turn out?
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  7. #47
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    We've justified our influence as in line with our founders' desires for self-determination, government "by the people and for the people," and for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,"
    Hilarious.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  8. #48
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    This is not some of your better comedy.
    He is right to point out that China joined the US's initiative of the 'Global War on Terror', and that these measures stem from it.

    Juvenal is still a journalist at heart, regurgitating one side's story without presenting the true context of the constant and growing threat of Islamic extremism in the region. He knows it because he mentions more than once that Uyghur is next to the stans, but in line with journalistic practice and training, everything against the narrative must be omitted if at all possible. A true journalist.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  9. #49
    radical strawberry
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    THE XINJIANG PAPERS
    ‘Absolutely No Mercy’: Leaked Files Expose How China Organized Mass Detentions of Muslims
    More than 400 pages of internal Chinese documents provide an unprecedented inside look at the crackdown on ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region.

    BY AUSTIN RAMZY AND CHRIS BUCKLEY
    NOVEMBER 16, 2019
    阅读简体中文版

    HONG KONG — The students booked their tickets home at the end of the semester, hoping for a relaxing break after exams and a summer of happy reunions with family in China’s far west.

    Instead, they would soon be told that their parents were gone, relatives had vanished and neighbors were missing — all of them locked up in an expanding network of detention camps built to hold Muslim ethnic minorities.

    The authorities in the Xinjiang region worried the situation was a powder keg. And so they prepared.

    The leadership distributed a classified directive advising local officials to corner returning students as soon as they arrived and keep them quiet. It included a chillingly bureaucratic guide for how to handle their anguished questions, beginning with the most obvious: Where is my family?


    World
    Uighurs and their supporters decry Chinese ‘concentration camps,’ ‘genocide’ after Xinjiang documents leaked

    By Lateshia Beachum
    November 17, 2019 at 8:31 p.m. EST

    Uighur activists and their supporters on Sunday called leaked Chinese documents that revealed the government’s plans to detain millions of ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region “truly chilling” and another form of “genocide.”

    Previous reporting has suggested the number of detainees may be in the millions. The internal documents from inside the party now confirm this.

    The Times called the documents “one of the most significant leaks of government papers from inside China’s ruling Communist Party in decades” and a strong indication that turmoil within the ruling party is rising over the repression of the Muslim Uighurs.

    The papers confirm reports that more than 1 million people have been detained in internment camps as the Chinese government seeks to strip Uighurs of their identity and indoctrinate them into being secular and loyal party supporters.

    Xi still told party members in secret speeches that religious extremists should be treated with “absolutely no mercy,” the Times reported.


    Document: What Chinese Officials Told
    Children Whose Families Were Put in Camps

    NOV. 16, 2019

    This document, part of 403 pages obtained by The New York Times, tells Chinese officials in Xinjiang how to explain the disappearance of parents and families detained in camps built to hold Muslim minorities. Anguished students asking about their parents were told they had nothing to worry about.


    So, apparently there is a way to get information out of Xinjiang without braving the borders. I wonder what the name of this leaker would be worth to Xi. I'd imagine the Times has taken precautions, but have they taken enough precautions to forestall the efforts of a state actor with decades of experience penetrating corporate defenses?

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