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Thread: In China, every day is Kristallnacht

  1. #41
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    This is not some of your better comedy.
    This thing has a long and complex history.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terr...China#Xinjiang
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  2. #42
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    This thing has a long and complex history.
    Yes, MUCH longer than the relatively recent attacks on the Twin Towers. I'll be happy to use my mod powers to delete that silly post if you'd like me to.
    DuckDuckGo - Privacy Simplified

  3. #43
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yes, MUCH longer than the relatively recent attacks on the Twin Towers. I'll be happy to use my mod powers to delete that silly post if you'd like me to.
    It’s there in the fifth paragraph of the wiki page (link above). I don’t see anything silly about it. But, if you think I am being insensitive, then please remove the offending material.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  4. #44
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    It’s there in the fifth paragraph of the wiki page (link above). I don’t see anything silly about it. But, if you think I am being insensitive, then please remove the offending material.
    Nope - it will be there for posterity as a witness to millions (ok, the 10-12 members and a couple dozen visitors) of Twebbers for time and all eternity (or until our next crash, for which we are about due).
    DuckDuckGo - Privacy Simplified

  5. #45
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    This has been ongoing for decades and decades, but kept low grade for most of the period due to pressure from the U.S. and bad publicity from their earlier campaign in Tibet.

    After 9/11, China was given a green light, and this is where they've come to since.
    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    In the aftermath of the September 11 attacks on New York, and America’s declaration of a “Global War on Terror”, China followed suit and proclaimed its own war on religious extremism and terrorism in Xinjiang, and the region’s descent into violence and repression began. It has reached the scale of cultural genocide.
    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    ... like China wouldn't have cracked down on religious extremism without 9/11...
    China wields as much influence as it can afford to wield, whether it's in autonomous and semi-autonomous regions identified with indigenous religions, like Tibet and Xinjiang, or the former British colony of Hong Kong, or whatever we're going to call the dredged-up bases in the south China sea.

    So do the Brits, or "did" if we're going to be scrupulous, and so do we.

    We've justified our influence as in line with our founders' desires for self-determination, government "by the people and for the people," and for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," reinforced by human rights initiatives and agreements we've succeeded in convincing others adopt as their own, with mixed success in implementation.

    China is focused on the paired interests of public order and prosperity, reinforced by an increasingly despotic government, including recent changes that will likely make President Xi a president-for-life.

  6. #46
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    It is not just Islam Demi - it is anything where the state feels threatened or a loss of control.
    Don't be naive, seer, all states that want to stay in control have to crack down on threats. How did the secession of the southern states turn out?
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  7. #47
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    We've justified our influence as in line with our founders' desires for self-determination, government "by the people and for the people," and for "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,"
    Hilarious.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  8. #48
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    This is not some of your better comedy.
    He is right to point out that China joined the US's initiative of the 'Global War on Terror', and that these measures stem from it.

    Juvenal is still a journalist at heart, regurgitating one side's story without presenting the true context of the constant and growing threat of Islamic extremism in the region. He knows it because he mentions more than once that Uyghur is next to the stans, but in line with journalistic practice and training, everything against the narrative must be omitted if at all possible. A true journalist.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  9. #49
    radical strawberry
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    THE XINJIANG PAPERS
    ‘Absolutely No Mercy’: Leaked Files Expose How China Organized Mass Detentions of Muslims
    More than 400 pages of internal Chinese documents provide an unprecedented inside look at the crackdown on ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region.

    BY AUSTIN RAMZY AND CHRIS BUCKLEY
    NOVEMBER 16, 2019
    阅读简体中文版

    HONG KONG — The students booked their tickets home at the end of the semester, hoping for a relaxing break after exams and a summer of happy reunions with family in China’s far west.

    Instead, they would soon be told that their parents were gone, relatives had vanished and neighbors were missing — all of them locked up in an expanding network of detention camps built to hold Muslim ethnic minorities.

    The authorities in the Xinjiang region worried the situation was a powder keg. And so they prepared.

    The leadership distributed a classified directive advising local officials to corner returning students as soon as they arrived and keep them quiet. It included a chillingly bureaucratic guide for how to handle their anguished questions, beginning with the most obvious: Where is my family?


    World
    Uighurs and their supporters decry Chinese ‘concentration camps,’ ‘genocide’ after Xinjiang documents leaked

    By Lateshia Beachum
    November 17, 2019 at 8:31 p.m. EST

    Uighur activists and their supporters on Sunday called leaked Chinese documents that revealed the government’s plans to detain millions of ethnic minorities in the Xinjiang region “truly chilling” and another form of “genocide.”

    Previous reporting has suggested the number of detainees may be in the millions. The internal documents from inside the party now confirm this.

    The Times called the documents “one of the most significant leaks of government papers from inside China’s ruling Communist Party in decades” and a strong indication that turmoil within the ruling party is rising over the repression of the Muslim Uighurs.

    The papers confirm reports that more than 1 million people have been detained in internment camps as the Chinese government seeks to strip Uighurs of their identity and indoctrinate them into being secular and loyal party supporters.

    Xi still told party members in secret speeches that religious extremists should be treated with “absolutely no mercy,” the Times reported.


    Document: What Chinese Officials Told
    Children Whose Families Were Put in Camps

    NOV. 16, 2019

    This document, part of 403 pages obtained by The New York Times, tells Chinese officials in Xinjiang how to explain the disappearance of parents and families detained in camps built to hold Muslim minorities. Anguished students asking about their parents were told they had nothing to worry about.


    So, apparently there is a way to get information out of Xinjiang without braving the borders. I wonder what the name of this leaker would be worth to Xi. I'd imagine the Times has taken precautions, but have they taken enough precautions to forestall the efforts of a state actor with decades of experience penetrating corporate defenses?

  10. #50
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Source: Secret documents reveal how China mass detention camps work


    The watch towers, double-locked doors and video surveillance in the Chinese camps are there “to prevent escapes.” Uighurs and other minorities held inside are scored on how well they speak the dominant Mandarin language and follow strict rules on everything down to bathing and using the toilet, scores that determine if they can leave.

    “Manner education” is mandatory, but “vocational skills improvement” is offered only after a year in the camps.

    Voluntary job training is the reason the Chinese government has given for detaining more than a million ethnic minorities, most of them Muslims. But a classified blueprint leaked to a consortium of news organizations shows the camps are instead precisely what former detainees have described: Forced ideological and behavioral re-education centers run in secret.

    The classified documents lay out the Chinese government’s deliberate strategy to lock up ethnic minorities even before they commit a crime, to rewire their thoughts and the language they speak.

    The papers also show how Beijing is pioneering a new form of social control using data and artificial intelligence. Drawing on data collected by mass surveillance technology, computers issued the names of tens of thousands of people for interrogation or detention in just one week.

    Taken as a whole, the documents give the most significant description yet of high-tech mass detention in the 21st century in the words of the Chinese government itself. Experts say they spell out a vast system that targets, surveils and grades entire ethnicities to forcibly assimilate and subdue them -- especially Uighurs, a predominantly Muslim Turkic minority of more than 10 million people with their own language and culture.

    “They confirm that this is a form of cultural genocide,” said Adrian Zenz, a leading security expert on the far western region of Xinjiang, the Uighur homeland. “It really shows that from the onset, the Chinese government had a plan.”

    Zenz said the documents echo the aim of the camps as outlined in a 2017 report from a local branch of the Xinjiang Ministry of Justice: To “wash brains, cleanse hearts, support the right, remove the wrong.”

    China has struggled for decades to control Xinjiang, where the Uighurs have long resented Beijing’s heavy-handed rule. After the 9/11 attacks in the United States, Chinese officials began justifying harsh security measures and religious restrictions as necessary to fend off terrorism, arguing that young Uighurs were susceptible to the influence of Islamic extremism. Hundreds have died since in terror attacks, reprisals and race riots, both Uighurs and Han Chinese.

    In 2014, Chinese President Xi Jinping launched what he called a “People’s War on Terror” when bombs set off by Uighur militants tore through a train station in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang, just hours after he concluded his first state visit there.

    “Build steel walls and iron fortresses. Set up nets above and snares below,” state media cited Xi as saying. “Cracking down severely on violent terrorist activities must be the focus of our current struggle.”

    In 2016, the crackdown intensified dramatically after Xi named Chen Quanguo, a hardline official transferred from Tibet, as Xinjiang’s new head. Most of the documents were issued in 2017, as Xinjiang’s “War on Terror” morphed into an extraordinary mass detention campaign using military-style technology.

    The practices largely continue today. The Chinese government says they work.

    “Since the measures have been taken, there’s no single terrorist incident in the past three years,” said a written response from the Chinese Embassy in the United Kingdom. “Xinjiang is much safer. ...The so-called leaked documents are fabrication and fake news.”

    The statement said that religious freedom and the personal freedom of detainees was “fully respected” in Xinjiang.

    When asked about the documents on Monday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang reiterated that issues surrounding Xinjiang are “purely China’s internal affairs.”

    “Some media used underhanded tricks to sensationalize the Xinjiang issue,” Geng said during a regular news briefing. “The plot to smear and slander China’s anti-terrorism and deradicalization efforts in Xinjiang will not prevail.”

    The documents were given to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists by an anonymous source. The ICIJ verified them by examining state media reports and public notices from the time, consulting experts, cross-checking signatures and confirming the contents with former camp employees and detainees.

    They consist of a notice with guidelines for the camps, four bulletins on how to use technology to target people, and a court case sentencing a Uighur Communist Party member to 10 years in prison for telling colleagues not to say dirty words, watch porn or eat without praying.

    The documents were issued to rank-and-file officials by the powerful Xinjiang Communist Party Political and Legal Affairs Commission, the region’s top authority overseeing police, courts and state security. They were put out under the head official at the time, Zhu Hailun, who annotated and signed some personally.

    The documents confirm from the government itself what is known about the camps from the testimony of dozens of Uighurs and Kazakhs, satellite imagery and tightly monitored visits by journalists to the region.

    Erzhan Qurban, an ethnic Kazakh who moved back to Kazakhstan, was grabbed by police on a trip back to China to see his mother and accused of committing crimes abroad. He protested that he was a simple herder who had done nothing wrong. But for the authorities, his time in Kazakhstan was reason enough for detention.

    Qurban told the AP he was locked in a cell with 10 others last year and told not to engage in “religious activities” like praying. They were forced to sit on plastic stools in rigid postures for hours at a time. Talk was forbidden, and two guards kept watch 24 hours a day. Inspectors checked that nails were short and faces trimmed of mustaches and beards, traditionally worn by pious Muslims.

    Those who disobeyed were forced to squat or spend 24 hours in solitary confinement in a frigid room.

    “It wasn’t education, it was just punishment,” said Qurban, who was held for nine months. “I was treated like an animal.”

    ___

    WHO GETS ROUNDED UP AND HOW

    On February 18, 2017, Zhu, the Han Chinese official who signed the documents, stood in chilly winter weather atop the front steps of the capital’s city hall, overlooking thousands of police in black brandishing rifles.

    “With the powerful fist of the People’s Democratic Dictatorship, all separatist activities and all terrorists shall be smashed to pieces,” Zhu announced into a microphone.

    With that began a new chapter in the state’s crackdown. Police called Uighurs and knocked on their doors at night to take them in for questioning. Others were stopped at borders or arrested at airports.

    In the years since, as Uighurs and Kazakhs were sent to the camps in droves, the government built hundreds of schools and orphanages to house and re-educate their children. Many of those who fled into exile don’t even know where their children or loved ones are.


    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    [*The article continues at the link provided above and contains numerous hyperlinks and pictures*]

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  11. Amen Juvenal amen'd this post.

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