Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Trump loses yet another case in court.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts


  • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      Don't forget the Steel Dossier and the entire impeachment inquiry, since you are listing off a slew of fake news stuff...
      It's "Steele," and it wasn't a dossier, just a set of briefing memos. I've actually read them, taking notes in fact, unlike most of the fakers around here. There's no reason to think any of the dossier itself is fake, just raw intelligence from reasonably reliable sources, some of which turned out to be wrong, most significantly the Cohen meeting in Prague. Most of it checked out, which is well above par for raw intelligence, the mark of an intelligence professional.

      The overall conclusion, that Russia, and indeed, Putin himself, were directly involved in bolstering Trump's campaign has been multiply confirmed, from the Mueller indictments to the Senate Intelligence Committee Reports, Vol 1. and Vol 2., which I've also read, along with countless hours spent watching the hearings.

      With all due respect, Bill, only one of us has done the work to know what we're talking about here.

      Similarly for the whistleblower complaint that launched the impeachment inquiry, almost all of which has been corroborated in the opening statements (which I've read) and depositions released to date (not all of which I've had time to read, including the latest by Cooper, released half an hour ago), with far more detail than was available to the whistleblower.

      It's likely there will be mistakes in these statements and depositions, but any comparison to birther conspiracies inter alia is grossly unwarranted and reasonably dismissed as partisan kicking against the traces.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        Hillary did indeed say it, but she doesn't post here ... unless ... Zym ... is there something you're not telling us?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          ...just raw intelligence from reasonably reliable sources, some of which turned out to be wrong....
          You typed that with a straight face, didn't you?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            You typed that with a straight face, didn't you?
            You typed that with a slack jaw, and I don't have to ask. I've seen way more than enough reason to believe your own intelligence background is faked up or grossly exaggerated.

            You ain't got what it takes.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              You typed that with a slack jaw, and I don't have to ask. I've seen way more than enough reason to believe your own intelligence background is faked up or grossly exaggerated.

              You ain't got what it takes.
              My sincere apologies - I intended that as a friendly poke.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                It's "Steele," and it wasn't a dossier, just a set of briefing memos. I've actually read them, taking notes in fact, unlike most of the fakers around here. There's no reason to think any of the dossier itself is fake, just raw intelligence from reasonably reliable sources, some of which turned out to be wrong, most significantly the Cohen meeting in Prague. Most of it checked out, which is well above par for raw intelligence, the mark of an intelligence professional.

                The overall conclusion, that Russia, and indeed, Putin himself, were directly involved in bolstering Trump's campaign has been multiply confirmed, from the Mueller indictments to the Senate Intelligence Committee Reports, Vol 1. and Vol 2., which I've also read, along with countless hours spent watching the hearings.

                With all due respect, Bill, only one of us has done the work to know what we're talking about here.

                Similarly for the whistleblower complaint that launched the impeachment inquiry, almost all of which has been corroborated in the opening statements (which I've read) and depositions released to date (not all of which I've had time to read, including the latest by Cooper, released half an hour ago), with far more detail than was available to the whistleblower.

                It's likely there will be mistakes in these statements and depositions, but any comparison to birther conspiracies inter alia is grossly unwarranted and reasonably dismissed as partisan kicking against the traces.
                Typed that while enjoying my free meal for Veteran's Day. T'was a typo. And I broke my own rule about engaging in Civics because I am now a full government employee, and thus restricted by the Hatch Act and by my oath to protect the classified info I am privy to that you folks simply aren't.

                Adieu.
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  Typed that while enjoying my free meal for Veteran's Day. T'was a typo. And I broke my own rule about engaging in Civics because I am now a full government employee, and thus restricted by the Hatch Act and by my oath to protect the classified info I am privy to that you folks simply aren't.

                  Adieu.
                  There's a suggestion here that classified information not available to the rest of us could, conceivably, contradict the public findings of the FBI, CIA, and NSA, not to mention the SSCI report posted above.

                  I don't find the suggestion credible.

                  At most, in my it's-not-just-my-hair-that's-perfect opinion, further information might reveal that some of Steele's sources were engaging in deliberate misinformation, a real possibility, but not one that would serve to contradict the detailed information on the identities of the Russians involved in the hacking and release via Wikileaks uncovered separately by the IC, associated with charges filed by Mueller.

                  The largest miss in the Steele memos was the purported Cohen meeting in Prague, which hasn't been definitely contradicted, but is something I judge reasonably refuted by the argument from silence — an episode where such an argument is compelling. Checking for a Cohen meeting in Prague is akin to looking for a tiger in a closet. The restricted search space provides compelling evidence the tiger is actually absent.

                  Before Cohen, Steele's sources pinpointed Manafort as the principal go-between, leveraging his former business ties:
                  Elsewhere, Steele reports that former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych “confided in Putin that he did authorize and order substantial kick-back payments to Manafort as alleged but sought to reassure him that there was no documentary trail left behind which could provide clear evidence of this.”

                  The official record supports this second allegation: Manafort’s work for, and bankrolling by, Yanukovych is at the core of the criminal charges against him—conduct he has admitted. The superseding indictment filed by Mueller’s office in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia goes into extensive detail about Manafort’s ties to Yanukovych and other Ukrainian political and business interests, but in short:
                  Defendant PAUL J. MANAFORT, JR. (MANAFORT) served for years as a political consultant and lobbyist. Between at least 2006 and 2015, MANAFORT, through companies he ran, acted as an unregistered agent of a foreign government and foreign political parties. Specifically, he represented the Government of Ukraine, the President of Ukraine (Victor Yanukovych, who was President from 2010 to 2014), the Party of Regions (a Ukrainian political party led by Yanukovych), and the Opposition Bloc (a successor to the Party of Regions after Yanukovych fled to Russia in 2014).

                  To date, the only direct confirmation related to the Trump campaign, as far as I'm aware, has been limited to polling data passed to Kilimnik, a Russian business associate with ties to Russian intelligence.

                  Again, the Steele memos are obviously raw intelligence, a list of meetings with numbered or lettered sources, headed by bullet-pointed highlights, followed up with details and analysis of what was shared. The highlights are obviously open for debate, given the glaring miss on Cohen, but enough of the details have been independently corroborated to defeat arguments that they're either fake or intended to promote conspiracy theories. More details appear likely to reside forever in limbo, as far as the general public can tell, given the extensive redactions in official documents.

                  From the Lawfare link, also cited above.
                  The redacted addendum to the sentencing memorandum filed by Mueller’s team in Flynn’s case explains that Flynn has cooperated extensively with the Special Counsel’s Office and provided information relevant to at least three different investigations: one criminal investigation, about which all information is redacted; the special counsel’s investigation into interactions between Russian government figures and the Trump campaign; and a third, completely redacted investigation.

                  I appreciate that you don't feel it's appropriate to respond.

                  Comment


                  • I find it ironic that you consider yourself a consummate and meticulous researcher yet apparently have no idea the real source of Steele's information.

                    Since 2017 CTH research has outlined that Christopher Steele was never the factual source of all the material inside the Clinton financed dossier. Instead all indications of the granular details point toward Christopher Steele as the laundry process where Nellie Ohr and Glenn Simpson’s collaborative work was formatted into an intelligence product known as the “Steele Dossier”.

                    Our research of central dossier claims, suppositions, accuracy and inaccuracy, points toward a process where Nellie Ohr provided Chris Steele with her research material and then Chris Steele was tasked with verifying, finding second sourcing, and formatting the final product into a series of intelligence documents that could be passed back to the FBI.

                    In essence, Nellie has always been the material dossier author.

                    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...e-ohr-dossier/
                    Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-13-2019, 10:17 AM.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      My sincere apologies - I intended that as a friendly poke.
                      Your best plays are the ones you never intended. Like weaponizing an apology. I was in awe. That was h/t time.

                      Thanks, goober, 'preciated.

                      That's just so not how this works. Makes no difference how many times I've told ya I only want to engage in substantive posting, you're going to keep on asking for the dozens until you get it.

                      Fine.

                      Your board, your rules.

                      But if I play, I'm going to play to win, and if I can get there in a single strike, so much better.

                      That's how it works.

                      Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike you, much anyway, but you've made it your mission to spitball away the kind of posting that once made this place a destination visited by everyone from Disco luminaries and ICR contributors to the best the Jesus mythicists had on offer, totally whack, but great gobs of fun. That's annoying, but I'm still the cannibal's favorite forum tart — yes, that is an homage to the Deedz' famous dislike of in-jokes, thanks for asking — I've got other girlfriends.

                      Ya might remember I once asked you to go ruin some other board, but you needn't pay that any mind anymore.

                      It's ruint.

                      Or better, it's been ruint.

                      And by been ruint, I mean well before ya got here, so ya can't do much more than add to the fail, and not much of that, either. Take a lesson from Zym. Now that guy is sublime. Conspiracy-fueled, but who cares, because his hits are fine art.

                      That sig!

                      You will never be that good.
                      Last edited by Juvenal; 11-13-2019, 11:00 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                        Your best plays are the ones you never intended. Like weaponizing an apology.
                        I thought something you said was humorous, and I....

                        "weaponized" an apology???

                        Seriously, looking back, I think you tripped up and responded to me, thinking you were responding to BtC, and this is your failed attempt at saving face.

                        The line " I've seen way more than enough reason to believe your own intelligence background is faked up or grossly exaggerated " doesn't make sense with regards to me, so....

                        IMOHBAO, you made an error, and simply can't bring yourself to admit.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                          Your best plays are the ones you never intended. Like weaponizing an apology. I was in awe. That was h/t time.

                          Thanks, goober, 'preciated.

                          That's just so not how this works. Makes no difference how many times I've told ya I only want to engage in substantive posting, you're going to keep on asking for the dozens until you get it.

                          Fine.

                          Your board, your rules.

                          But if I play, I'm going to play to win, and if I can get there in a single strike, so much better.

                          That's how it works.

                          Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike you, much anyway, but you've made it your mission to spitball away the kind of posting that once made this place a destination visited by everyone from Disco luminaries and ICR contributors to the best the Jesus mythicists had on offer, totally whack, but great gobs of fun. That's annoying, but I'm still the cannibal's favorite forum tart — yes, that is an homage to the Deedz' famous dislike of in-jokes, thanks for asking — I've got other girlfriends.

                          Ya might remember I once asked you to go ruin some other board, but you needn't pay that any mind anymore.

                          It's ruint.

                          Or better, it's been ruint.

                          And by been ruint, I mean well before ya got here, so ya can't do much more than add to the fail, and not much of that, either. Take a lesson from Zym. Now that guy is sublime. Conspiracy-fueled, but who cares, because his hits are fine art.

                          That sig!

                          You will never be that good.
                          Dang, lookit all the substance here! I don't know why you've decided that Cow Poke should be the especial target of your jackassery lately. What did he do - point out for all to see that your 'perfect hair' is in reality a wig or something?
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                            Your best plays are the ones you never intended. Like weaponizing an apology. I was in awe. That was h/t time.

                            Thanks, goober, 'preciated.

                            That's just so not how this works. Makes no difference how many times I've told ya I only want to engage in substantive posting, you're going to keep on asking for the dozens until you get it.

                            Fine.

                            Your board, your rules.

                            But if I play, I'm going to play to win, and if I can get there in a single strike, so much better.

                            That's how it works.

                            Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike you, much anyway, but you've made it your mission to spitball away the kind of posting that once made this place a destination visited by everyone from Disco luminaries and ICR contributors to the best the Jesus mythicists had on offer, totally whack, but great gobs of fun. That's annoying, but I'm still the cannibal's favorite forum tart — yes, that is an homage to the Deedz' famous dislike of in-jokes, thanks for asking — I've got other girlfriends.

                            Ya might remember I once asked you to go ruin some other board, but you needn't pay that any mind anymore.

                            It's ruint.

                            Or better, it's been ruint.

                            And by been ruint, I mean well before ya got here, so ya can't do much more than add to the fail, and not much of that, either. Take a lesson from Zym. Now that guy is sublime. Conspiracy-fueled, but who cares, because his hits are fine art.

                            That sig!

                            You will never be that good.
                            You've been taking hits offa little jimmy's bong haven't you? Unfortunately it looks like the stuff burning in it was doused with paraquat and laced with Angel Dust. You're starting to lose it.
                            Last edited by rogue06; 11-13-2019, 12:58 PM.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Dang, lookit all the substance here! I don't know why you've decided that Cow Poke should be the especial target of your jackassery lately. What did he do - point out for all to see that your 'perfect hair' is in reality a wig or something?
                              I think he finally has noticed that his cherished New York Times has sank below the level of the National Enquirer in trustworthiness and in his despair is fitfully lashing out at anything that moves.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                You've been taking hits offa little jimmy's bong haven't you? Unfortunately it looks like the stuff burning in it was doused with paraquat and laced with Angel Dust. You're starting to lose it.
                                He's succumbing to TDS.
                                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 05:11 PM
                                0 responses
                                20 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 11:25 AM
                                32 responses
                                209 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post oxmixmudd  
                                Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 01:48 PM
                                24 responses
                                104 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, 03-17-2024, 11:56 AM
                                52 responses
                                286 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post seer
                                by seer
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-16-2024, 07:40 AM
                                77 responses
                                386 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X