The Internet is Destroying the LDS Church

[One Bad Pig]

I am not sure this counts, but here is one possible answer:

"...some of your 'prophets' said and did some really dumb things..."

I know some really smart people who have done some really dumb things.

My recollection does not agree with yours. I will say that there have been occasions (not necessarily here) when I have cited Athanasius merely as a rebuttal to the sweeping accusation that "Christians have never believed that humans can become gods." I didn't claim that Athanasius' understanding of theosis was identical to LDS doctrine on the subject, but some Trinitarians accused me of making that claim. Those Trinitarians were mistaken.

Have you actually read Athanasius? I challenged you do to so on the old TWeb, but I don't recall you ever responding that you had. Athanasius understood there was a fundamental difference between Creator and created, without which his stance against Arius makes no sense. To the extent that Mormons believe that humans can become gods, Christians have indeed never believed that humans can become gods. Your claim to Athanasius as support for Mormon beliefs is disingenuous at best.

[Cow Poke]

Every single person , except Jesus, who has ever lived has said and done things that are just plain DUMB. (This is especially true from the perspective of people in a modern society who have unlimited information at our fingertips.)

Get over it. Work on the beams in your own eyes, rather than trying to dissect the motes of people who lived a long time ago in a less progressive culture and when different sentimentalities reigned.

-7up

Was that in the Book of Acts where Peter preached against alcohol, then opened up a bar in the hotel he owned? Or how bout when Paul wrote that polygamy was an abomination, then changed his mind and it was a commandment, and even had a "prophecy" where he threatened his own wife with destruction if she didn't go along with it, then it was no longer a commandment again?

OH WAIT!!!! That wasn't OUR guys!!! It was JOSEPH SMITH!

[seven7up]

Yeah, Jeff, I've heard all the "that's what an atheist would say" arguments, but they just don't float... did ANY of the REAL prophets claim that every word they spoke was scripture, ...

I think that, even from the time of Joseph Smith, it was made clear that prophets were not infallible and not every single thing they said should be considered scripture.

But the gift of prophecy is not restricted to those whose words have been recorded in scripture. By scriptural definition, a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ and is moved by the Holy Ghost (Rev. 19:10; cf. TPJS, pp. 119, 160). Moses, voicing his approval of two men who had prophesied, exclaimed, "Would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!" (Num. 11:26-29). Schools of prophets and "sons" (followers) of prophets, some false and some true, existed in large numbers in Old Testament times. In modern times, speaking of Brigham Young, Elder Wilford Woodruff said, "He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (JD 13:165; see Spirit of Prophecy). It follows that this spirit does not operate in every utterance of its possessor. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that "a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such" (HC 5:265).

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Prophet

-7up

[Cow Poke]

I think that, even from the time of Joseph Smith, it was made clear that prophets were not infallible and not every single thing they said should be considered scripture.-7up

Including when they SAY that everything they say is scripture?

Why don't you just admit that Brigham Young was a major screwup?

Are you UNAWARE of the claims he made?

[seven7up]

I think this is the Mormon attempt to equate Mormon 'prophets' with the best of the REAL Prophets, not try to throw them under the bus by claiming they're "just good ol' boys" like those sinful prophets of old.

Source: lds.org/scriptures

1 My servant, Orson Hyde, was called by his ordination to proclaim the everlasting gospel, by the Spirit of the living God, from people to people, and from land to land, in the congregations of the wicked, in their synagogues, reasoning with and expounding all scriptures unto them.

2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth—

3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

© Copyright Original Source

To suggest that these people are CONSTANTLY being inspired by the Holy Spirit in order to write scripture was never purported. It did not apply to the OT prophets, the NT apostles, and it does not apply to LDS leaders either.

-7up

[Cow Poke]

To suggest that these people are CONSTANTLY being inspired by the Holy Spirit in order to write scripture was never purported. It did not apply to the OT prophets, the NT apostles, and it does not apply to LDS leaders either.

-7up

So, Brigham Young was smoking crack?

[seven7up]

Including when they SAY that everything they say is scripture?

Why don't you just admit that Brigham Young was a major screwup?

Are you UNAWARE of the claims he made?

I am aware of the claims he made. But he was not a "screwup".

He was twice the man that you will ever be, and as an instrument in God's hands, accomplished more than you could ever hope to accomplish.

-7up

[Cow Poke]

I am aware of the claims he made. But he was not a "screwup".

He was twice the man that you will ever be,

So why are your buddies always throwing him under the bus?

and as an instrument in God's hands, accomplished more than you could ever hope to accomplish.

-7up

Here's what one of your idols said:

“I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture” (Ezra Taft Benson, Fourteen Fundamentals of Following the Prophet, press copy, 6-7).

Commence kabuki dance.

[Bill the Cat]

He was twice the man that you will ever be,

He was rather portly, wasn't he?

Mormon-LDS-Meme-Funny-20.jpg

[Cow Poke]

He was rather portly, wasn't he?

Which is why he's REALLY uncomfortable when all the Mormons throw him under the bus.

(His beard reminds me of Si)

[Doctrine Matters]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/us...oubt.html?_r=0

Honest men like Hans Mattsson are asking serious questions. They have been decieved and the dissonance between what is true and what the leaders of the Mormon church has taught is growing.

If the Church tells the true story many more people will leave Mormonism or live in a state of dissonance.

The question is will these revelations destroy the church or will the church actually start to distance itself from the prophets prophecies and call them more of opinions. It sounds like in the case of Bringham Young the church is fine with distancing themselves from his doctrines.

Interesting questions.... right?

The majority of converts leave within one year. Once they learn the truth about Mormonism, and the lifestyle of Joseph Smith, they just stop attending. More often than not, however, they are still counted as members because they haven't gone through the formal resignation process, don't want the hassle. Mormon membership rolls are very inflated.

[Janice]

"But Mr. Mattsson and others say the disillusionment is infecting the church’s best and brightest. A survey of more than 3,300 Mormon disbelievers, released last year, found that more than half of the men and four in 10 of the women had served in leadership positions in the church."

This statement I found to be extremely interesting and funny. Most members of the Church at one time or another are put in some leadership position of some sort. It would be a rare thing for any member to go a long period of time and not get a leadership calling.

You base that on what? Many people just can't lead, but are good followers.