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Sondland admits quid pro quo

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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    right ... and that is why some of them consulted with lawyers ...
    Anyone in that situation who didn't consult with a lawyer is a fool.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Yeah, that's not going to fly in the Senate.
      You mean where there will be an actual judge, not a judge/prosecutor/partisan?
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        You mean where there will be an actual judge, not a judge/prosecutor/partisan?
        And actual rules of evidence.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Correction... Contradiction... What's the difference?

          ...
          Perjury charges.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

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          • Originally posted by Charles View Post
            If you have still not noticed "the original answer" was based on a simplification. Let me repeat:



            You seem to naively follow along the lines described in this part: "seem to be under the impression that unless the president spoke the words Ambassador Sondland, I am bribing the Ukrainian president, that there is no evidence of bribery if he didn’t say Ambassador Sondland, I’m telling you I’m not going to give the aid unless they do this. That there's no evidence of a quid pro quo on military aid."
            Schiff isn't testifying - grandstanding yes, testifying, no.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              First of all, Schiff is offering an argument from silence. But secondly, Trump wasn't silent and in fact emphatically told Sondland that he did not want quid pro quo, so Schiff's argument doubly fails as a logical fallacy and on the basis of directly contradictory evidence.
              And Schiff's 'testimony' isn't Sondland's - and doesn't improve Sondland's testimony in the least.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                Schiff isn't testifying - grandstanding yes, testifying, no.
                I do get a kick out of every time Schiff has to say "I recognize myself" to grandstand, as he has made this all about him.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  You mean where there will be an actual judge, not a judge/prosecutor/partisan?
                  CJ Roberts will preside, but the Senate will set its own rules. To be fair, they could muck with the rules - but it's unlikely since normal rules of evidence favor the President.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

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                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    All we know based on sworn testimony is that when directly asked if they had any concerns or evidence that the President had engaged in illegal conduct with regards to his negotiations with Ukraine, every witness has clearly said no. You can spin it however you want, but the facts are the facts.

                    Unless you're going for Biden's "They have facts, but we have truth" routine.
                    Is Vindman no longer a witness? He was clearly concerned. Morrison was concerned enough to consult a lawyer. Jennifer Williams was also concerned. Other witnesses also heard the call and had no concerns but it’s worth noting that Vindman was already aware of the push for investigations.

                    Also worth noting that Volker was not concerned with the call at the time but testified that he had learnt a lot since then and if he had heard the call knowing what he now knew then he would’ve also reported it.

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                    • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                      Is Vindman no longer a witness? He was clearly concerned. Morrison was concerned enough to consult a lawyer. Jennifer Williams was also concerned. Other witnesses also heard the call and had no concerns but it’s worth noting that Vindman was already aware of the push for investigations.

                      Also worth noting that Volker was not concerned with the call at the time but testified that he had learnt a lot since then and if he had heard the call knowing what he now knew then he would’ve also reported it.
                      I'll leave the substance to MM but being concerned that something could be illegal doesn't prove anything about whether or not it actually is illegal.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

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                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        I'll leave the substance to MM but being concerned that something could be illegal doesn't prove anything about whether or not it actually is illegal.
                        July 25 call is evidence and the defence to it is that there is nothing wrong with the call. Multiple people in the position they’re in being concerned about the call has probative value to support the assertion that July 25 call is concerning. Still better than nothing!

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                        • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                          Is Vindman no longer a witness? He was clearly concerned. Morrison was concerned enough to consult a lawyer. Jennifer Williams was also concerned. Other witnesses also heard the call and had no concerns but it’s worth noting that Vindman was already aware of the push for investigations.

                          Also worth noting that Volker was not concerned with the call at the time but testified that he had learnt a lot since then and if he had heard the call knowing what he now knew then he would’ve also reported it.
                          Their concerns were primarily political rather than legal. When asked point blank whether or not they think Trump committed a crime, every witness has said no, which honestly surprises me a little because I think the correct answer is, "I am not qualified to make that determination," but regardless, they've all said no.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                          • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                            July 25 call is evidence and the defence to it is that there is nothing wrong with the call. Multiple people in the position they’re in being concerned about the call has probative value to support the assertion that July 25 call is concerning. Still better than nothing!
                            In saying that, you can’t really determine relevance of evidence without knowing the elements that need to be established to prove it.

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                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Their concerns were primarily political rather than legal. When asked point blank whether or not they think Trump committed a crime, every witness has said no, which honestly surprises me a little because I think the correct answer is, "I am not qualified to make that determination," but regardless, they've all said no.
                              And they wouldn’t be able to answer that question in court for that reason.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                                July 25 call is evidence and the defence to it is that there is nothing wrong with the call. Multiple people in the position they’re in being concerned about the call has probative value to support the assertion that July 25 call is concerning. Still better than nothing!
                                And multiple witnesses testifying to the opposite? One on record - none of the exculpatory witnesses the Republicans requested were granted (pretty sure - won't swear to it).

                                Even if I'm mistaken, not a lot better than nothing.
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                                Quill Sword

                                Comment

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