Sondland admits quid pro quo

[NorrinRadd]

I pretty thoroughly agree with Ben Shapiro here: It's all about intent, and there's plenty of ambiguity there.

And yes, I agree that the "perfect phone call" was typical silly bluster by the Very Stable Genius, and I agree that the "no quid pro quo" has always been untrue -- and *should* almost always be untrue in foreign policy, and in most political negotiations. It was stupid of Mulvaney to walk back -- ok, do a panicked high-speed twisting backflip away from -- that admission.

[NorrinRadd]

Would you say the first three movies were better?

No, I kinda sorta enjoyed them, but to me, they basically constituted an unwanted complete retcon. And they were all inconsistent with each other (Zeist???), and with the series.

I see they're working on a reboot, but I'm skeptical that they can catch quickening in a bottle a second time.

[seanD]

You wish. Biden has been consistently leading the Democrat polls. And it is clearly a major threat for sleazy Trump to have to compete with a decent man as an opponent.

He's a gaffe machine, most likely due to old age (worse case scenario is the early signs of dementia). You know it, I know it, and everyone knows it. Trump will exploit it. I don't believe Biden will make it to the general, but if he did, I'd actually feel really sorry for the guy. It would be cringe central, only not in a good way at all.

[Mountain Man]

Fredo on CNN tries to disprove Trump's claim that you can't overhear a cell phone conversation unless it's on speaker and SPOILER he utterly fails...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8n2Mfp...ture=emb_title

[oxmixmudd]

Fredo on CNN tries to disprove Trump's claim that you can't overhear a cell phone conversation unless it's on speaker and SPOILER he utterly fails...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8n2Mfp...ture=emb_title

I've overheard plenty of conversations on cell phones. There are a large number of ways the demo could have failed, and its always possible sondland accidentally had trump on speaker at first and figured it out later and that is why Holmes did not hear the rest of the call.

Bottom line, there is no way to prove it impossible, and I would think most of us with decent hearing would know it is possible.

[Mountain Man]

I've overheard plenty of conversations on cell phones. There are a large number of ways the demo could have failed, and its always possible sondland accidentally had trump on speaker at first and figured it out later and that is why Holmes did not hear the rest of the call.

Bottom line, there is no way to prove it impossible, and I would think most of us with decent hearing would know it is possible.

Sondland and his group were on an outdoor patio at a public restaurant. There's no way anybody could have overheard the second half of the conversation unless it was on speaker, and unless Sondland is deaf, there's no way he could have accidently had his phone on speaker without immediately realizing it.

But do you love your spin.

[oxmixmudd]

Sondland and his group were on an outdoor patio at a public restaurant. There's no way anybody could have overheard the second half of the conversation unless it was on speaker, and unless Sondland is deaf, there's no way he could have accidently had his phone on speaker without immediately realizing it.

But do you love your spin.

Yes - there are ways for both MM. I have had that happen to me, and I've observed it happen to others (accidentally put on speaker). I've also had plenty of conversations where I had to turn the volume down because it was so loud even when not on speaker. It depends on the phone, the connection itself, and how loud the person is on the other end, and how good the hearing is of the person doing the overhearing.

Based on his description of sondlands actions (holding the phone several inches away from his hear), if it was loud enough to have produced that reaction, it would be plenty loud enough to hear sitting next to sondland or across from him.

Again you are trying to smear a person because you don't like what hey had to say by implying he is lying about what he heard. He was clear about what he heard and what he did not hear. Clearly sondland turned it down, or Trump quieted down, or the characteristics of the connection changed (you may not know it, but a cell phone conversation can switch frequencies and other characteristics multiple times per conversation) It is what it is. And you don't have Sondland claiming it was all made up. So get over it and stop smearing people that are telling the truth about what they heard and saw.

[Mountain Man]

Yes - there are ways for both MM. I have had that happen to me, and I've observed it happen to others (accidentally put on speaker).

Yes, it's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to others, and when the person in question holds the phone up to their ear, the reaction is invariably the same: "Woah, that's loud! Oh, wait, I have it on speaker..." So like I said, unless Sondland is deaf, he would have immediately known he was on speaker phone.

Based on his description of sondlands actions (holding the phone several inches away from his hear), if it was loud enough to have produced that reaction, it would be plenty loud enough to hear sitting next to sondland or across from him.

Which brings up the other issue of Sondland incautiously having a privileged conversation with the President of the United States at a public restaurant in the Ukraine apparently in such a manner that he could be easily overheard by any foreign spies who were undoubtedly sitting at nearby tables (you really don't think an American delegation could go out in public without being followed by foreign agents, do you?).

[oxmixmudd]

Yes, it's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to others, and when the person in question holds the phone up to their ear, the reaction is invariably the same: "Woah, that's loud! Oh, wait, I have it on speaker..." So like I said, unless Sondland is deaf, he would have immediately known he was on speaker phone.


Which brings up the other issue of Sondland incautiously having a privileged conversation with the President of the United States at a public restaurant in the Ukraine apparently in such a manner that he could be easily overheard by any foreign spies who were undoubtedly sitting at nearby tables (you really don't think an American delegation could go out in public without being followed by foreign agents, do you?).

Your second comment is true and has been brought up and points to both Trump and Sondlands disregard for security in deference to their personal goals.

As for the first, just depends MM. Speculating about what did or did not happen to produce the observed result is useless. The initial part of the conversation was loud enough to Holmes to hear it. Sondland doesn't dispute it. And there are several ways that could have happened. End of complaint.

[Mountain Man]

Your second comment is true and has been brought up and points to both Trump and Sondlands disregard for security in deference to their personal goals.

This assumes that Sondland was forthcoming with the President about the circumstances under which he was taking the call.

[oxmixmudd]

This assumes that Sondland was forthcoming with the President about the circumstances under which he was taking the call.

Really? Given the fact Trump and Sondland frequently conversed, do you really suppose that Donald Trump (or his staff as the case might be) would not know the number of the phone calling him and that is was Sondlands private line vs his secure line? Further Donald Trump has reputation for making calls on insecure lines - using his personal cell for calls - so it wouldn't have made any difference to him either way.

You'll grasp at anything to defend Trump - won't you ...

[Mountain Man]

Really?

Yes, really.

[Watermelon]

This assumes that Sondland was forthcoming with the President about the circumstances under which he was taking the call.

Are you suggesting that the outdoor patio of this public restaurant was just loud enough to make eavesdropping impossible yet quiet enough to make Trump believe he took proper security precautions?

[JimL]

Or because it just takes a person with even a modicum of information about what's going on to use a little common sense and figure out why Biden wasn't a threat to Trump,

Perhaps your problem is that you only have a modicum of information. Biden, as well as all of the Democrat candidates lead Trump in Presidential polling, tops among them being Biden. Now of course you can argue that he is not a threat, but the actual existing info out there shows that he is a threat whether you choose to agree with that info or not.

therefore a stretch to assume Trump was risking all this to look for dirt on Biden specifically for election leverage. If a person with the barest minimum of knowledge can figure that out, I'm sure a senator can.

Trump is trying to create the same game plan that he used in 2016. He didn't care about Biden corruption, he just wants the narrative out there, he just wanted Zelensky to annouce the beginnings of an investigation into Biden on CNN. Besides, you guys really have to stop buying into the stupidity they throw at you. If Trump was concerned about corruption in Ukraine he wouldn't have sent Giuliani and his two amigos there to focus on Burisma, or demand that Zelensky announce an investigation into Burisma. It just takes a person with a modicum of common sense to recognise Trumps target was Biden, not corruption in general.

The 2020 election is what your base should have been focused on all along. Instead, you wasted four years of nonsense and delusion, and because of that, I suspect a pretty broad election defeat. Look at the fundraising between the DNC and the GOP. It's like night and day. But I hope for the best for you.

You call it nonsense and delusion because of your psychological state which prevents you from seeing anything other than what you already believe. Fundraising has nothing to do with it, Trump, as is the republican way, has a lot of wealth and corporate money coming in, Dems are trying to break out of , and destroy the corrupt system.

[Mountain Man]

Are you suggesting that the outdoor patio of this public restaurant was just loud enough to make eavesdropping impossible yet quiet enough to make Trump believe he took proper security precautions?

Obviously both can't be true, so take your pick: either the conversation could not be overheard, in which case those claiming they could hear Trump's side of the conversation are lying, or at least embellishing the truth; or Sondland took the call in such a way so as to be easily overheard by anybody in the vicinity, including any nearby foreign agents.