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Thread: Sondland admits quid pro quo

  1. #251
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It still has to be proven, Jim. Maybe that can happen in the House, where Schiff has made himself judge, jury and PR man, but in the Senate there will be an actual judge and actual rules of evidence.
    And where Schiff can't ban any and all exculpatory witnesses and forbid questions the answers to which would cause him at the very least embarrassment.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  2. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  3. #252
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    It is a bribery statute that applies in this case. I have heard that discussed by lawyers.
    Oh, well that settles it! The lawyers you choose to believe have declared it so!
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  4. #253
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    And yet somehow he managed to convince Sondland he cared almost nothing for Ukraine, just the investigations. So much so Sondland acted in such a way as to convince a fairly large group of people they were connected. Again, the idea this was not purposed, was 'an accident' is not credible. Trump said what he knew he had to say in an attempt to avoid what is before us today, nothing more, nothing less.
    That was Sondland's opinion, which he formed in direct contradiction to Trump's emphatic and unambiguous statements as quoted by Sondland under oath.

    Come on, man, you're going to seriously injure yourself stretching like that.
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    Than a fool in the eyes of God


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  5. #254
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Oh, well that settles it! The lawyers you choose to believe have declared it so!
    18 USC 201 I think.
    If I find the podcast again I will report back.
    Cow Poke for POTUS!
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
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    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    This too from OA333. The lawyer.
    Thomas: Yeah, yeah, and they’re like – so that seems to make it even worse. I feel like more could be made of the fact that he does not have any right to do that at all! It’s not even a “oh, well the President has this power,” he doesn’t. Unless I’m mistaken, this is not a thing he can do regardless.

    Andrew: No, you are 100% correct and we’ve actually talked about that. It is 2 U.S.C. § 683 that allows the President to request suspension of funds that have been allocated by Congress, but he’s gotta prepare a report to Congress. He’s got to undertake certain affirmative steps to comply with the law that are procedural requirements and he didn’t do any of that, so I think that’s really, really perceptive, it’s an important thing that our listeners should be out there looking for, which is as you’re looking at the roster of potential witnesses does the Intelligence Committee, do they hear from somebody from OMB? Do they subpoena witnesses from OMB? I agree with you.[
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  7. #256
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    18 USC 201 I think.
    If I find the podcast again I will report back.
    Cow Poke for POTUS!
    And if I were king...
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  8. #257
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    OA332, the bit about the bribery statute.

    so the one thing that I wish that Adam Schiff would do in his introductory statements that we’re gonna do on this show is, that is a reflection of how lawyers give opening statements, and that is you start with the legal standard of the thing that you’re trying to prove.

    Thomas: Hmm.

    Andrew: Again, on Ukraine there is one law here. That’s part of why this is a really straightforward story to tell. That law is 18 U.S.C. § 201. It’s the bribery statute. There really are – I’ve described it as three elements, there really are two overarching elements to that statute. So the first two elements are that an elected official has to demand something of value in exchange for being influenced in the performance of any official act.

    We’ve gone back and forth, if Republicans wanna call that, and the press has already seized on that as quid pro quo, quid pro quo, I’m okay with using that rhetoric. We’ve talked about ways in which it’s misleading, but I kind of view it as the messaging war over Obamacare for a while. [Laughs] Frank Lutz was like “we should call that Obamacare” and Republicans, following slavishly on Frank Lutz’s messaging, called it Obamacare. After about 6 months the Obama administration was like okay, fine, let’s call it Obamacare.

    Thomas: Well, yeah.

    Andrew: I am Obama and it does provide care for people.

    Thomas: Right, but then when people polled “how do you like Obamacare” versus “how do you like the Affordable Care Act” there was a vast difference, so maybe that wasn’t a good idea, but I was gonna say this reminds me of setting up the whole collusion thing, you know?

    Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

    Thomas: Which was a pretty, honestly it was a pretty good trick they pulled, but this one’s funny to me because it’s like they tried to do the same thing, oh we’ll set it up for quid pro quo, quid pro quo, aha! Yes! We’ve set you up for quid pro quo, and we review the evidence and – oh wait, there actually is a pro..

    Andrew: [Laughs] Yeah!

    Thomas: Well we should’ve picked a thing that’s – uh, murder! We should’ve said murder. You’re saying there’s a murder and there’s not, clearly! They kinda messed up when they’re just describing exactly what happened.

    Andrew: Yeah. I think – A, really, really good point on Obamacare, but put a pin in this, I think Republicans are really starting to back away from and concede the quid pro quo part, because what we saw in the hearings were very little that contested the underlying facts on those two elements, so where they’re really gonna shift to is the third part.

    Again, only three elements, so the first two are subsumed by the quid pro quo. Is there a demand of something for value in exchange for being influenced in the performance of any official act? Yes. Then, the question is was that done with corrupt intent? That’s where the Republican defense is shifting and, by the way, that is exactly what we predicted!
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  9. #258
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    And if I were king...
    You would be fair and just, like Solomon!
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  10. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  11. #259
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    At least the guy has a sense of humor...

    sondland.JPG
    https://twitter.com/Olivia_Beavers/s...ent-hearing%2F
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  12. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  13. #260
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    David Axelrod appears to be sending up the white flag saying that based on Sondland's testimony, it is unlikely that "any R will break rank on impeachment".
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  14. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.

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