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Thread: Sondland admits quid pro quo

  1. #31
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    He didn't just presume, sherlock. In the first place you don't just forget having such an important discussion with foreign leaders in the first place, like Sondland testified to doing his first go around. What happened was he lied to Congress and then realized he got caught after hearing the contradictory testimony of others and so came back for a do over to protect himself from a perjury charge. Ask yourself why, if no one told him of the quid pro quo, why on earth would he just presume it?
    That's not the point I was making, Jim. What do you think "The anticorruption statement" entails? Did he say "The Biden investigation for political gain statement"? No. The Biden/Burisma investigation was part of a larger anticorruption initiative sought by the administration.

    And you really need get out of the bubble once in a while.
    Says the man in the glass house...

    Biden wasn't just a side issue, the Bidens and Burisma were the only issue, Trumps deal was that the investigation into the Bidens and Burisma was to be made public, nothing else, just the Bidens and Burisma.
    *cough* CrowdstrikeÖ

    And again, the fact that Biden is a Dem candidate has nothing to do with his own corruption wrt his son's work with Burisma.

    Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-hunter-bidens-ukraine-gas-firm-urged-obama-admin-to-end-corruption-allegations-report-says



    A new report released on Monday night alleges that the Ukrainian gas company, Burisma, that employed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Bidenís son, Hunter Biden, pressed the Obama administration to end the corruption allegations against them during the 2016 election year.

    n February 2016, a representative from Burisma sought to meet with Undersecretary of State Catherine A. Novelli to discuss the allegations of corruption that the U.S. government was making toward the company, according to memos obtained by award-winning investigative reporter John Solomon.

    © Copyright Original Source



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  3. #32
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    If Obama was recorded asking another leader to investigate, say, Mitt Romney or John McCain, you'd have been all over him. And Democrats would be justified in being critical of such a reckless ask. I know I would be.
    Riiiiiiight.

    Considering the sound of crickets coming from the Democrats after the attempt of some in their party to fabricate a document full of unsubstantiated rumors and outright falsehoods concerning Trump (the Steele dossier) I seriously doubt that there would have been a peep of protest.

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  4. #33
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Sure, you can try and salvage his testimony by making certain unfounded assumptions that are favorable to your case, but any competent defense attorney would rip it apart.

    For one thing, if he was told, then why wouldn't he just say that he was told? Instead, he said things like "I learned" and "I had come to understand" and "I presumed". He even says that he didn't know when the aid had been suspended, or by whom, or for what reason, or how he even came to know about it! If this is what Democrats have to base their case on then they're in big trouble.
    That's the point, MM, why wouldn't he just say that he was told? I'll just let you mull that over for a while and see if the answer can find its way into your head.

    While we're waiting perhaps you can answer the original question, If Sondland "just came to understand" then how did that just come to him, and if he just "presumed", then wherefrom came that presumption? Thin air?

  5. #34
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    No crap, sherlock. The anti-corruption investigations were linked to aid. That Biden happened to be involved in one of those is a side issue. As MM cited, "I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement... "
    it is clear from multiple witnesses and the transcript trump was focused on Biden, not general corruption, that is the specifics of Sondlands statement as well. Had it been clear Trump cared only about corruption in general you could potentially make the case Biden was a side effect. But not as it is. This was politically motivated, Trump was trying to get Ukraine to create a situation destructive to the Biden campaign and was holding up aid that had been allocated by congress and which was in the National Security interests of the US so that he could force Ukraine to do his bidding.
    He will reply, ĎTruly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

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  6. #35
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    That's the point, MM, why wouldn't he just say that he was told?
    Because he wasn't told. In fact, he said in a message to Taylor that Trump was "crystal clear" that he didn't want a quid pro quo of any kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    If Sondland "just came to understand" then how did that just come to him, and if he just "presumed", then wherefrom came that presumption?
    It doesn't matter. He can presume whatever he wants. That doesn't make it a fact.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    it is clear from multiple witnesses and the transcript trump was focused on Biden, not general corruption, that is the specifics of Sondlands statement as well. Had it been clear Trump cared only about corruption in general you could potentially make the case Biden was a side effect. But not as it is. This was politically motivated, Trump was trying to get Ukraine to create a situation destructive to the Biden campaign and was holding up aid that had been allocated by congress and which was in the National Security interests of the US so that he could force Ukraine to do his bidding.
    You realize this whole Ukraine thing started months before Biden even announced his candidacy, right?


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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  9. #37
    tWebber
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    I don't know why Trump or anyone would in any way see Biden as any kind of a threat? Surely Biden is seen by most as being tired and lack-luster and weak and old and boring in general? (Not his fault of course, he is old and tired but certainly not worthy of being seen as any kind of real opponent)? I do have a soft spot for Biden for having raised his sons and having to suffer the sickness and death of his one son but this is besides the point.

  10. #38
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    You realize this whole Ukraine thing started months before Biden even announced his candidacy, right?
    Because Trump just knew that Biden would be the nominee! Right? Right?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


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  11. Amen Bill the Cat amen'd this post.
  12. #39
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    It appears that the Democrats have focus-group tested "quid pro quo" and found it wanting. Thus they are now dropping it like a hot potato and rolling out the latest terms that apparently polled better.

    Within 24 hours you've had multiple politicians and journalists reading from the same script saying things like what Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA) said on CNN yesterday:

    We keep using the word quid pro quo, but the accurate word here is bribery and extortion.


    This was soon echoed by NBC News/MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner who proclaimed:

    Take the term quid pro quo, ball it up and throw it in the trash, and letís call this what it is, itís bribery.


    Soon, "bribery" and "extortion" were being parroted by left-wing politicians and members of the MSM. It's kind of spooky how this sort of thing keeps happening again and again, over and over. Suddenly the exact same phrase is being repeated by every liberal talking head within hours of each other.

    For instance, here's just one of oh so many examples from immediately after Trump's acceptance speech at the Republican Convention in 2016:


    You'd think that with an ever shrinking market, that at least one of these guys would try to stand out rather than mindlessly regurgitating today's talking point.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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  13. #40
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    You realize this whole Ukraine thing started months before Biden even announced his candidacy, right?
    The video of his boasting of how he got the prosecutor removed had been making the rounds and raising quite a few eyebrows for some time before he threw his proverbial hat into the ring.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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