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Thread: Sondland admits quid pro quo

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    tWebber
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    Sondland admits quid pro quo

    And it's official:

    //https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/05/politics/gordon-sondland-kurt-volker-transcripts-impeachment-inquiry/index.html

    Source: cnn

    US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland sent the committee a three-page addition to his testimony on Monday, saying he had remembered a September 1 conversation that occurred on the sidelines of a meeting between Vice President Mike Pence and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which he told a top aide to Zelensky that the security aid and investigations were linked.

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    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Let's quote his actual words, shall we?

    "After a large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks. I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement..."

    Emphasi mine.

    The first takeaway is that presumptions are not evidence.

    And the second is that this statement implies that he was never directed by the Trump administration to make this proposal.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-05-2019 at 03:50 PM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
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    Than a fool in the eyes of God


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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    And it's official:

    //https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/05/politics/gordon-sondland-kurt-volker-transcripts-impeachment-inquiry/index.html

    Source: cnn

    US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland sent the committee a three-page addition to his testimony on Monday, saying he had remembered a September 1 conversation that occurred on the sidelines of a meeting between Vice President Mike Pence and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which he told a top aide to Zelensky that the security aid and investigations were linked.

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    hmmm.jpg

    Maybe this?

    US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland sent the committee a three-page addition to his testimony on Monday,
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 11-05-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Let's quote his actual words, shall we?

    "After a large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks. I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement..."

    Emphasi mine.

    The first takeaway is that presumptions are not evidence.

    And the second is that this statement implies that he was never directed by the Trump administration to make this proposal.
    So, lemme get this straight --- he was adamant back then that there was no quid pro quo, and even texted back then that Trump was very angry and said "I want nothing - I want no quid pro quo", but now he "remembers" that he "presumed" there must have been....


    Yeah, rock solid!
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  5. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Other sketchy statements from Sondland's "corrections" (again, emphasis mine):

    "I always believed that suspending aid to Ukraine was ill-advised, although I did not know (and still do not know) when, why, or by whom the aid was suspended. However, by the beginning of September 2019, and in the absence of any credible explanation for the suspension of aid, I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anti-corruption statement. As I said in my prepared testimony, security aid to Ukraine was in our vital national interest and should not have been delayed for any reason. [This is nothing but his opinion. -MM] And it would have been natural for me to have voiced what I had presumed to Ambassador Taylor, Senator Johnson, the Ukrainians, and Mr. Morrison."

    An awful lot of presuming going on. He also says "it would have been natural" for him to voice his concerns to interested parties, but pay attention to sleight of hand: He never says that he actually voiced his concerns!

    "Soon thereafter, I came to understand [Meaning he wasn't told. -MM] that, in fact, the public statement would need to come directly from President Zelensky himself. I do not specifically recall how I learned this [Again, the implication is that he wasn't told. -MM], but I believe that the information may have come either from Mr. Giuliani or from Ambassador Volkor, who may have discussed this with Mr. Giuliani."

    Remember, any time a witness says "may have", you can substitute "may not have" without changing the meaning of the statement.

    "In a later conversation with Ambassador Taylor, I told him that I had been mistaken about whether a public statement could come from the Prosecutor General; I had come to understand [The implication, again, is that this isn't something he was told. -MM] that the public statement would have to come from President Zelensky himself."

    Now see if you can follow along with this one:

    "Ambassador Taylor recalls that Mr. Morrison told Ambassador Taylor that I told Mr. Morrison that I had conveyed this message to Mr. Yermak..."

    That's like something out of a Marx Bros. skit!

    And on it goes. Taking apart testimony like this is like batting practice for defense attorneys.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And on it goes. Taking apart testimony like this is like batting practice for defense attorneys.
    When you have statements that were made at the time, texts, emails..... vs "oh, yeah, I just remembered".... and, as you point out, the current version is "presumed", not "knew" or "know".
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  8. Amen rogue06, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    When you have statements that were made at the time, texts, emails..... vs "oh, yeah, I just remembered".... and, as you point out, the current version is "presumed", not "knew" or "know".
    And "I learned" and "I came to believe" as opposed to "I was told".
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Interesting...

    In their rush to accuse the Trump administration of wrongdoing, Democrats and the media have overlooked one other key fact: the crucial August 2019 Politico article.

    The article, “Trump holds up Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia,” dated August 28, was the first that the Ukrainians ever knew about any withholding of aid — five weeks after the phone call between Trump and Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky which supposedly prompted the so-called “whistleblower” to approach Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) and the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. Sondland refers specifically to September.

    Therefore what changed his — and others’ — impression was not anything the administration (or its representatives) did or said. Rather, it was the media.

    Since Sondland consumes the same media that everyone else does — indeed, it is part of a diplomat’s job to know what is being said — he drew his own conclusions. But when he asked President Trump directly, Trump told him there was no “quid pro quo”: he just wanted Zelensky to do “the right thing.”

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-quid-pro-quo/
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And "I learned" and "I came to believe" as opposed to "I was told".
    It's always a red flag when a witness changes their testimony without a solid reason.
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  12. Amen Teallaura, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  13. #10
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Interesting...

    In their rush to accuse the Trump administration of wrongdoing, Democrats and the media have overlooked one other key fact: the crucial August 2019 Politico article.

    The article, “Trump holds up Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia,” dated August 28, was the first that the Ukrainians ever knew about any withholding of aid — five weeks after the phone call between Trump and Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky which supposedly prompted the so-called “whistleblower” to approach Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) and the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. Sondland refers specifically to September.

    Therefore what changed his — and others’ — impression was not anything the administration (or its representatives) did or said. Rather, it was the media.

    Since Sondland consumes the same media that everyone else does — indeed, it is part of a diplomat’s job to know what is being said — he drew his own conclusions. But when he asked President Trump directly, Trump told him there was no “quid pro quo”: he just wanted Zelensky to do “the right thing.”

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-quid-pro-quo/
    I'm just laughing and laughing. I called your tack on this. Nailed it. You all are just absolutely linked at the hip to Trump, and he is just the wrong person to sacrifice yourselves for.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  14. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.

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