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Sondland admits quid pro quo

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    You mean you don't want your head to implode.
    Nah, Schiff is infuriating but he's no Kirk.

    Agreed, we all have bias which needs be checked. Being objective though isn't difficult, if you want to be.
    Being fair is achievable - true objectivity is not humanly possible.

    You're going to have to stop arguing "process" eventually, frankly it was never a relevant argument anyway.
    Not a process argument (Due Process is absolutely relevant and so is process in general).


    You were also extremely dubious that Nancy Pelosi would go for Impeachment. There will be articles, mark my word.
    She has either lost control or her mind. Possibly both.


    All the better for the Dems. If the Senate sweeps it under the rug, after the people have seen the facts, then they will not only have lost the case for the president, but they just might lose the Senate as well. Let's hope so, eh!
    No, Jim - the Senate is full of real lawyers who will shred the heck out of this garbage. There won't be any basement testimony with Schiff defending witnesses from scrutiny. If the House Dems don't turn up something substantial very, very soon, they will be totally screwed. This crap won't begin to fly at trial - and every lawyer in Congress knows it. Everything will be out in the open - and cross will be brutal.

    If they don't come up with something that can stand in the light of a trial, the House Dems are fools to vote articles. I'm not even sure they can - too many moderates can't afford to vote for without solid, real and damning evidence. They are no where near that.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

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    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Yes, Tea, he committed perjury, and your point is?
      You are arguing that Brietbart is somehow wrong when you already owned that the guy is a perjurer.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

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      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Jim, by your own account, Sondland committed perjury.
        And Sondland has retracted it and now says that he told Ukraine it was unlikely to get $400m in aid unless it announced an investigations into a Trump rival. This is in agreement with the depositions of numerous witnesses to this effect.

        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...pro-quo-latest

        In short, Trump abused the power of his office to pressure a foreign leader to investigate a political rival in the 2020 election.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Nah, Schiff is infuriating but he's no Kirk.

          Being fair is achievable - true objectivity is not humanly possible.

          Not a process argument (Due Process is absolutely relevant and so is process in general).


          She has either lost control or her mind. Possibly both.


          No, Jim - the Senate is full of real lawyers who will shred the heck out of this garbage. There won't be any basement testimony with Schiff defending witnesses from scrutiny. If the House Dems don't turn up something substantial very, very soon, they will be totally screwed. This crap won't begin to fly at trial - and every lawyer in Congress knows it. Everything will be out in the open - and cross will be brutal.

          If they don't come up with something that can stand in the light of a trial, the House Dems are fools to vote articles. I'm not even sure they can - too many moderates can't afford to vote for without solid, real and damning evidence. They are no where near that.
          They could be counting on the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party (i.e., the MSM) to only report what they want -- much like how they did for most of the Kavanaugh trial. Most Americans were unaware of just how flimsy Ford's claims were since all they would do at most was say that there might be a few inconsistencies. That was until Trump's tweet listing some of the major problems and the MSM repeated them (allowing millions to see them for the first time) so they could show how mean Trump is. IOW, for instance, count on them saying the Republicans are bullying any witnesses and trying to intimidate them and not report what was actually said (except for out-of-context quote mines).
          Last edited by rogue06; 11-13-2019, 02:32 AM.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            They could be counting on the propaganda wing of the Democratic Party (i.e., the MSM) to only report what they want -- much like how they did for most of the Kavanaugh trial. Most Americans were unaware of just how flimsy Ford's claims were since all they would do at most was say that there might be a few inconsistencies. That was until Trump's tweet listing some of the major problems and the MSM repeated them (allowing millions to see them for the first time) so they could show how mean Trump is. IOW, for instance, count on them saying the Republicans are bullying any witnesses and trying to intimidate them and not report what was actually said (except for out-of-context quote mines).
            Maybe - but after Mueller, that's probably only going to work on the true believers.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

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            • The case against Trump continues to come apart at the seams...

              Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said on Thursday that U.S. ambassador Gordon Sondland did not explicitly link military aid to Kiev with opening an investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Interfax Ukraine reported.

              ...

              “Ambassador Sondland did not tell us, and certainly did not tell me, about a connection between the assistance and the investigations. You should ask him,” Prystaiko said about Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

              https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1XO1HK
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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              • Senior NSC official Tim Morrison who listened to the July 25th phonecall says that nothing improper occurred, and he disputes Vindman's claims that the transcript is incomplete and specifically says that Burisma was never mentioned. He also doesn't remember Vindman or anybody else attempting to "correct" the transcript by adding "Burisma", a relevant bit of testimony because Morrison is the guy who was responsible for preparing the final transcript and would have been aware of suggested changes. Furthermore, he says that Vindman was deliberately kept out of the loop because of his questionable judgement and that he was believed to be a source of leaks.

                https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...zelensky-call/
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  The case against Trump continues to come apart at the seams...

                  Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said on Thursday that U.S. ambassador Gordon Sondland did not explicitly link military aid to Kiev with opening an investigation into former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Interfax Ukraine reported.

                  ...

                  “Ambassador Sondland did not tell us, and certainly did not tell me, about a connection between the assistance and the investigations. You should ask him,” Prystaiko said about Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

                  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1XO1HK
                  "You should ask him," Prystaiko said. I'm sure Congress will ask him, on wednesday.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    "You should ask him," Prystaiko said. I'm sure Congress will ask him, on wednesday.
                    Er, so what? You yourself declared Sondland a perjurer - he's definitely been caught lying. So why, exactly, is he a credible witness? He isn't (I did try to tell you it weakened the case) - he's the only principle testifying and he's already disreputable.

                    The only witness that can provide material evidence is a proven liar - by your own admission a perjurer - nothing he says on Wednesday will be credible and he'll be shredded on cross.

                    It'll be amazing if they even vote on articles at this rate.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      Maybe - but after Mueller, that's probably only going to work on the true believers.
                      Like JimL and the Anti Trump crew here.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Er, so what? You yourself declared Sondland a perjurer - he's definitely been caught lying.
                        A Trump supporter is worried about someone who has told a lie.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Er, so what? You yourself declared Sondland a perjurer - he's definitely been caught lying. So why, exactly, is he a credible witness? He isn't (I did try to tell you it weakened the case) - he's the only principle testifying and he's already disreputable.

                          The only witness that can provide material evidence is a proven liar - by your own admission a perjurer - nothing he says on Wednesday will be credible and he'll be shredded on cross.

                          It'll be amazing if they even vote on articles at this rate.
                          His lies are designed to hide the truth about Donald Trump. And his testimony involves not new information from him, but rather confirmation of testimony from other witnesses that contradicts his own testimony. IOW, he is boxed in and he can only choose to tell what he actually knows or be tried for perjury. It's not that he is trustworthy, it's that he has information and the prosecution has the leverage to force him to reveal it.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            His lies are designed to hide the truth about Donald Trump. And his testimony involves not new information from him, but rather confirmation of testimony from other witnesses that contradicts his own testimony. IOW, he is boxed in and he can only choose to tell what he actually knows or be tried for perjury. It's not that he is trustworthy, it's that he has information and the prosecution has the leverage to force him to reveal it.
                            Although he does have the option of pleading the 5th, which of course won't do Trump a whole lot of good.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Er, so what? You yourself declared Sondland a perjurer - he's definitely been caught lying. So why, exactly, is he a credible witness? He isn't (I did try to tell you it weakened the case) - he's the only principle testifying and he's already disreputable.

                              The only witness that can provide material evidence is a proven liar - by your own admission a perjurer - nothing he says on Wednesday will be credible and he'll be shredded on cross.

                              It'll be amazing if they even vote on articles at this rate.
                              I think others have answered that already and sufficiently, Tea, so I will only note that you've been wrong in your opinionated assertions so far concerning this whole impeachment process such as how it is going to hurt democrats in the elections. In the elections so far the democrats have taken over complete control of the Virginia state legislature, they've won the Kentucky (red state) governorship, and now they have just won the Louisiana (red state) Governorship, all in the face of Trumps begging support for the republican candidate. It doesn't seem your prophesy is holding up. Perhaps republicans supporting the corrupt Trump might want to think twice about the need for his support in their own upcoming elections.

                              Comment


                              • Some interesting new details about David Holmes, one of the people at the Ukrainian restaurant who supposedly overheard Sondland talking with Trump...

                                He admits they were drinking at the time; that he didn't hear the entire phonecall; that while he has detailed notes about other portions of the call and emailed the details to a colleague, he has no record of direct quotes from President Trump or about the relevant portion of the call where Trump supposedly showed an undue interest in having Biden investigated; and he is strongly biased against President Trump.

                                Furthermore, he says that he doesn't remember who he spoke with about the call or what he told them, but he did admit to sharing some details with six of his friends while on vacation.

                                Frankly, this guy sounds like a serious security risk. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that.

                                https://www.breitbart.com/national-s...nt-take-notes/
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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