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Sondland admits quid pro quo

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  • #31
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    He didn't just presume, sherlock. In the first place you don't just forget having such an important discussion with foreign leaders in the first place, like Sondland testified to doing his first go around. What happened was he lied to Congress and then realized he got caught after hearing the contradictory testimony of others and so came back for a do over to protect himself from a perjury charge. Ask yourself why, if no one told him of the quid pro quo, why on earth would he just presume it?
    That's not the point I was making, Jim. What do you think "The anticorruption statement" entails? Did he say "The Biden investigation for political gain statement"? No. The Biden/Burisma investigation was part of a larger anticorruption initiative sought by the administration.

    And you really need get out of the bubble once in a while.
    Says the man in the glass house...

    Biden wasn't just a side issue, the Bidens and Burisma were the only issue, Trumps deal was that the investigation into the Bidens and Burisma was to be made public, nothing else, just the Bidens and Burisma.
    *cough* Crowdstrike…

    And again, the fact that Biden is a Dem candidate has nothing to do with his own corruption wrt his son's work with Burisma.

    Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-hunter-bidens-ukraine-gas-firm-urged-obama-admin-to-end-corruption-allegations-report-says



    A new report released on Monday night alleges that the Ukrainian gas company, Burisma, that employed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, pressed the Obama administration to end the corruption allegations against them during the 2016 election year.

    n February 2016, a representative from Burisma sought to meet with Undersecretary of State Catherine A. Novelli to discuss the allegations of corruption that the U.S. government was making toward the company, according to memos obtained by award-winning investigative reporter John Solomon.

    © Copyright Original Source

    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by whag View Post
      If Obama was recorded asking another leader to investigate, say, Mitt Romney or John McCain, you'd have been all over him. And Democrats would be justified in being critical of such a reckless ask. I know I would be.
      Riiiiiiight.

      Considering the sound of crickets coming from the Democrats after the attempt of some in their party to fabricate a document full of unsubstantiated rumors and outright falsehoods concerning Trump (the Steele dossier) I seriously doubt that there would have been a peep of protest.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Sure, you can try and salvage his testimony by making certain unfounded assumptions that are favorable to your case, but any competent defense attorney would rip it apart.

        For one thing, if he was told, then why wouldn't he just say that he was told? Instead, he said things like "I learned" and "I had come to understand" and "I presumed". He even says that he didn't know when the aid had been suspended, or by whom, or for what reason, or how he even came to know about it! If this is what Democrats have to base their case on then they're in big trouble.
        That's the point, MM, why wouldn't he just say that he was told? I'll just let you mull that over for a while and see if the answer can find its way into your head.

        While we're waiting perhaps you can answer the original question, If Sondland "just came to understand" then how did that just come to him, and if he just "presumed", then wherefrom came that presumption? Thin air?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          No crap, sherlock. The anti-corruption investigations were linked to aid. That Biden happened to be involved in one of those is a side issue. As MM cited, "I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement... "
          it is clear from multiple witnesses and the transcript trump was focused on Biden, not general corruption, that is the specifics of Sondlands statement as well. Had it been clear Trump cared only about corruption in general you could potentially make the case Biden was a side effect. But not as it is. This was politically motivated, Trump was trying to get Ukraine to create a situation destructive to the Biden campaign and was holding up aid that had been allocated by congress and which was in the National Security interests of the US so that he could force Ukraine to do his bidding.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
            That's the point, MM, why wouldn't he just say that he was told?
            Because he wasn't told. In fact, he said in a message to Taylor that Trump was "crystal clear" that he didn't want a quid pro quo of any kind.

            Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
            If Sondland "just came to understand" then how did that just come to him, and if he just "presumed", then wherefrom came that presumption?
            It doesn't matter. He can presume whatever he wants. That doesn't make it a fact.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              it is clear from multiple witnesses and the transcript trump was focused on Biden, not general corruption, that is the specifics of Sondlands statement as well. Had it been clear Trump cared only about corruption in general you could potentially make the case Biden was a side effect. But not as it is. This was politically motivated, Trump was trying to get Ukraine to create a situation destructive to the Biden campaign and was holding up aid that had been allocated by congress and which was in the National Security interests of the US so that he could force Ukraine to do his bidding.
              You realize this whole Ukraine thing started months before Biden even announced his candidacy, right?
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #37
                I don't know why Trump or anyone would in any way see Biden as any kind of a threat? Surely Biden is seen by most as being tired and lack-luster and weak and old and boring in general? (Not his fault of course, he is old and tired but certainly not worthy of being seen as any kind of real opponent)? I do have a soft spot for Biden for having raised his sons and having to suffer the sickness and death of his one son but this is besides the point.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  You realize this whole Ukraine thing started months before Biden even announced his candidacy, right?
                  Because Trump just knew that Biden would be the nominee! Right? Right?
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    It appears that the Democrats have focus-group tested "quid pro quo" and found it wanting. Thus they are now dropping it like a hot potato and rolling out the latest terms that apparently polled better.

                    Within 24 hours you've had multiple politicians and journalists reading from the same script saying things like what Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA) said on CNN yesterday:

                    We keep using the word quid pro quo, but the accurate word here is bribery and extortion.


                    This was soon echoed by NBC News/MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner who proclaimed:

                    Take the term quid pro quo, ball it up and throw it in the trash, and let’s call this what it is, it’s bribery.


                    Soon, "bribery" and "extortion" were being parroted by left-wing politicians and members of the MSM. It's kind of spooky how this sort of thing keeps happening again and again, over and over. Suddenly the exact same phrase is being repeated by every liberal talking head within hours of each other.

                    For instance, here's just one of oh so many examples from immediately after Trump's acceptance speech at the Republican Convention in 2016:


                    You'd think that with an ever shrinking market, that at least one of these guys would try to stand out rather than mindlessly regurgitating today's talking point.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      You realize this whole Ukraine thing started months before Biden even announced his candidacy, right?
                      The video of his boasting of how he got the prosecutor removed had been making the rounds and raising quite a few eyebrows for some time before he threw his proverbial hat into the ring.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Because Trump just knew that Biden would be the nominee! Right? Right?
                        Rudy had been traveling to Ukraine for months before his April 7 Fox News interview where he publicly accused Biden of corruption. Biden didn't even enter the ring of Democrat candidates until Apr 25.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          It appears that the Democrats have focus-group tested "quid pro quo" and found it wanting. Thus they are now dropping it like a hot potato and rolling out the latest terms that apparently polled better.

                          Within 24 hours you've had multiple politicians and journalists reading from the same script saying things like what Rep. John Garamendi (D-CA) said on CNN yesterday:

                          We keep using the word quid pro quo, but the accurate word here is bribery and extortion.


                          This was soon echoed by NBC News/MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner who proclaimed:

                          Take the term quid pro quo, ball it up and throw it in the trash, and let’s call this what it is, it’s bribery.


                          Soon, "bribery" and "extortion" were being parroted by left-wing politicians and members of the MSM. It's kind of spooky how this sort of thing keeps happening again and again, over and over. Suddenly the exact same phrase is being repeated by every liberal talking head within hours of each other.

                          For instance, here's just one of oh so many examples from immediately after Trump's acceptance speech at the Republican Convention in 2016:

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]40716[/ATTACH]

                          You'd think that with an ever shrinking market, that at least one of these guys would try to stand out rather than mindlessly regurgitating today's talking point.
                          Mmmhm. Of course, the right wing media has no talking points. Everything each FOX News talking head says originates individually with no commonality of verbiage or evidence of groupthink messaging.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            The video of his boasting of how he got the prosecutor removed had been making the rounds and raising quite a few eyebrows for some time before he threw his proverbial hat into the ring.
                            Which completely refutes the "to influence the 2020 election" nonsense.
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            - Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Esther View Post
                              I don't know why Trump or anyone would in any way see Biden as any kind of a threat? Surely Biden is seen by most as being tired and lack-luster and weak and old and boring in general? (Not his fault of course, he is old and tired but certainly not worthy of being seen as any kind of real opponent)? I do have a soft spot for Biden for having raised his sons and having to suffer the sickness and death of his one son but this is besides the point.
                              Moreover, anyone that has seen his attempts to run for president before knows that he just cannot run a national campaign. He is blessed for being from the second smallest state in the country with a population a fraction of what just one large metropolitan city has or he never would have even made it to the Senate.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by whag View Post
                                Mmmhm. Of course, the right wing media has no talking points. Everything each FOX News talking head says originates individually with no commonality of verbiage or evidence of groupthink messaging.
                                Got examples?
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                                Comment

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