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  • #31
    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Maybe so. But why do the Democrats have to lie so very often to achieve their goal? And why does the media lie with them?
    Trump and the conservative media lie to you every day and you are either too ignorant to recognize it, or you just don't care. In light of that, saying stuff like the above makes you look like a great big fool. No offense.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      I've been waiting for someone to make that specious argument, and I figured it would be you.
      What argument? That wasn't an argument, just an observation. You are confused.

      There is, of course, a significant difference between someone like you and me posting anonymously...
      There is certainly a difference between you and me. I'm not posting anonymously. Also, I tend not to fall for idiotic hoaxes and conspiracies.
      ...on a massage forum,...
      Otgerscin here may disagree.
      Last edited by Roy; 11-11-2019, 10:43 AM.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
      MM on climate change: Looking at the historical temperature data in my region over the past ten years shows that temperatures have been stable ...

      mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post
        I'm not posting anonymously.
        In that case, you won't mind sharing your full name and other personal details like where you live and work.

        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
          Maybe so. But why do the Democrats have to lie so very often to achieve their goal? And why does the media lie with them?
          Why pretend that politics anything close to a fair, gentlemanly competition? You talked about ballot harvesting and stuffing earlier, Bernie and Ron Paul were screwed over, you know well that anything goes when so much power is at stake.

          Originally posted by Ivanka Trump
          “…surrounded by enemies and spies catching and perverting every word that falls from my lips or flows from my pen, and inventing where facts fail them.” -Thomas Jefferson’s reflections on Washington, D.C. in a letter to his daughter Martha. Some things never change, dad!
          Nothing changes, politicians lie, the media lies and deceives.
          Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Trump and the conservative media lie to you every day and you are either too ignorant to recognize it, or you just don't care. In light of that, saying stuff like the above makes you look like a great big fool. No offense.
            If I trusted your opinion, I might be offended.

            If you open your eyes, I may start listening to what you are saying.

            Look at Mountain Man's post #33 why you should be careful about the politician and media.

            Remember that most people have a little trust in the traditional media. This does make me wonder if the youth think the media is too conservative -- wow. I hope not. If they think that, then we can only hope that the global warming concern is real and that the world will come to an end next year.

            If we start coming together on what we consider reasonably held facts, we'll have a better discussion.
            Last edited by mikewhitney; 11-11-2019, 02:18 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              If he doesn't have the courage and conviction to make his name public, then I really don't care what he has to say.
              Would you care about it even if we knew the name, or would you still have your head firmly in the ground and be yelling that facts don't matter like normal?

              Lets say it turns out to be Trump's ex-Chief of Staff, ex-General John Kelly, since he seems to be one of the more likely candidates. (e.g Nikki Haley has said that of the Cabinet he was one of those most actively trying to save America from Trump's nuttery) Say we learned it was him who is the 'anonymous' behind the op-ed and the book. Would you still shrug it off?
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Would you care about it even if we knew the name, or would you still have your head firmly in the ground and be yelling that facts don't matter like normal?

                Lets say it turns out to be Trump's ex-Chief of Staff, ex-General John Kelly, since he seems to be one of the more likely candidates. (e.g Nikki Haley has said that of the Cabinet he was one of those most actively trying to save America from Trump's nuttery) Say we learned it was him who is the 'anonymous' behind the op-ed and the book. Would you still shrug it off?
                If I could be confident what the facts were, evidence of illegal activity of Trump in his Presidency would be an issue. I am just having a problem of finding trustworthy facts in light of all the untrustworthy media. There has been attempts to disqualify Trump even before he became President. How do we find any honesty in the anti-Trump movement in the mess of the media reporting?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                  This just proves the deep state is principally composed of Trump-appointed, likewise ineffective and incapable, senior administration officials.
                  Actually, a majority of these leakers are found to be Obama era holdovers... j/s
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  - Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    If I could be confident what the facts were, evidence of illegal activity of Trump in his Presidency would be an issue. I am just having a problem of finding trustworthy facts in light of all the untrustworthy media. There has been attempts to disqualify Trump even before he became President. How do we find any honesty in the anti-Trump movement in the mess of the media reporting?
                    You have hit the problem squarely on the head. How does the conservative audience, inoculated by the fake news mantra, learn what is really going on. The only news outlets Trump will not call 'fake news' are those that report favorably about him. So as long as the standard of 'branded by Trump as fake news' is being used to determine what to believe, it would seem the truth about any Trump wrong-doings can never be learned by those that support Trump to the extent they adopt his classification of what is, or is not, fake news.

                    This goes to the heart of what the free press is, what it is about, and why it exists, to the heart of why the free press is critical to a democracy, and to the heart of why fair and unbiased journalistic standards must be adhered to by any legitimate journalistic enterprises, and finally, to the heart of what is so dangerous about Trump and his spokesman constantly on the warpath against the press.


                    Jim
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      You have hit the problem squarely on the head. How does the conservative audience, inoculated by the fake news mantra, learn what is really going on. The only news outlets Trump will not call 'fake news' are those that report favorably about him. So as long as the standard of 'branded by Trump as fake news' is being used to determine what to believe, it would seem the truth about any Trump wrong-doings can never be learned by those that support Trump to the extent they adopt his classification of what is, or is not, fake news.

                      This goes to the heart of what the free press is, what it is about, and why it exists, to the heart of why the free press is critical to a democracy, and to the heart of why fair and unbiased journalistic standards must be adhered to by any legitimate journalistic enterprises, and finally, to the heart of what is so dangerous about Trump and his spokesman constantly on the warpath against the press.


                      Jim
                      No, Jim. The REAL problem is that the MSM is no longer news, but has turned into editorializing partisan hacks.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
                        Would you care about it even if we knew the name, or would you still have your head firmly in the ground and be yelling that facts don't matter like normal?

                        Lets say it turns out to be Trump's ex-Chief of Staff, ex-General John Kelly, since he seems to be one of the more likely candidates. (e.g Nikki Haley has said that of the Cabinet he was one of those most actively trying to save America from Trump's nuttery) Say we learned it was him who is the 'anonymous' behind the op-ed and the book. Would you still shrug it off?
                        So you're asking me if I would still shrug it off if we found out it was written by someone with no credibility and a treasonous bent like John Kelly who ignored direct orders and tried to establish his own foreign policy?

                        Yeah, I would.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          You have hit the problem squarely on the head. How does the conservative audience, inoculated by the fake news mantra, learn what is really going on. The only news outlets Trump will not call 'fake news' are those that report favorably about him. So as long as the standard of 'branded by Trump as fake news' is being used to determine what to believe, it would seem the truth about any Trump wrong-doings can never be learned by those that support Trump to the extent they adopt his classification of what is, or is not, fake news.

                          This goes to the heart of what the free press is, what it is about, and why it exists, to the heart of why the free press is critical to a democracy, and to the heart of why fair and unbiased journalistic standards must be adhered to by any legitimate journalistic enterprises, and finally, to the heart of what is so dangerous about Trump and his spokesman constantly on the warpath against the press.


                          Jim
                          You got to the heart of the problem. You are trying to get something for free. haha.

                          So how do you get to the heart of the problem -- of how to know that news items represent truthful facts?

                          I can't imagine how you have found that Trump is so powerful as to control the conservative media.

                          The traditional media almost exclusively provides 'facts' from Democrats. Where do you go to get non-Democrat-controlled news?

                          The traditional media has a long way to go to re-establish any degree of credibility for many people (70%)
                          Last edited by mikewhitney; 11-11-2019, 04:11 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            So you're asking me if I would still shrug it off if we found out it was written by someone with no credibility and a treasonous bent like John Kelly who ignored direct orders and tried to establish his own foreign policy?

                            Yeah, I would.
                            So one choice is that Kelly, Tillerson are treasonous. But these are men of high caliber, praised when they were chosen, men of integrity. People who ostensibly supported Trump. when such people are turned by what they see and hear on the inside, is it not possible, even likely, they observed such things as to make that a reasonable response?
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              No, Jim. The REAL problem is that the MSM is no longer news, but has turned into editorializing partisan hacks.
                              I think that perhaps Jim had you in mind when writing the post you replied to. Nixon said that the MSM wasn't real news as well. He was forced to resign because as it turned out the MSM was real news.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                I think that perhaps Jim had you in mind when writing the post you replied to. Nixon said that the MSM wasn't real news as well. He was forced to resign because as it turned out the MSM was real news.
                                Okay. So what does that mean for us 50 years later?

                                Does media rely on teletypes and typewriters today?

                                Do we have the same news reporters with the same view of the world?

                                Are the news organizations owned today by the same groups that owned them 50 years ago?
                                Last edited by mikewhitney; 11-11-2019, 05:35 PM.

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