Page 19 of 26 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 255

Thread: How Scientists Got Climate Change So Wrong

  1. #181
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,324
    Amen (Given)
    376
    Amen (Received)
    1684
    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Observe how it's been derailed to 'who is currently the biggest polluter, and how do we define it'. Instead of facing facts, that in the next several decades the emissions of China + India alone, let alone the rest of the developing world, will skyrocket. Absolutely skyrocket, past how many more "points of no return".

    They're not serious about addressing the huge problem they claim exists, and it's not worth taking them too seriously.
    That comment explains a lot.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  2. #182
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northeast USA
    Faith
    MYOB
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,407
    Amen (Given)
    91
    Amen (Received)
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Observe how it's been derailed to 'who is currently the biggest polluter, and how do we define it'. Instead of facing facts, that in the next several decades the emissions of China + India alone, let alone the rest of the developing world, will skyrocket. Absolutely skyrocket, past how many more "points of no return".

    They're not serious about addressing the huge problem they claim exists, and it's not worth taking them too seriously.
    To be honest, i'm more worried about India than China. China's emissions seems to have plateaued, and the country has far more renewable energy installed than anyone else on the planet, and have gone in big for electric vehicles. They also seem to be able to build nuclear reactors (though for all we know, their budget or safety standards on these builds may be just as bad as ours.) They've got a lot of work to do to bring the whole country up to the standard of living that their urban population enjoys, but at least all of those people will be given new — meaning efficient — homes, cars, etc.

    India, in contrast, is in a sharp upwards swing, and their past governments were pushing coal right up until the point where renewables became cheaper. The plus side of things is that they've still got over 100 million people without any electricity, and the grid is underpowered and unstable where it exists, so there's a lot of space for renewables to occupy. They're now pushing solar hard, but there's some committed infrastructure there, and I don't have a strong sense of their government's commitment to things — it will require ongoing commitment to diplomatic pressure by the countries that have sane climate policies (which pretty much means the industrialized democracies except the US and Australia*).

    Is that "taking it seriously" enough for your tastes, or would you care to define what would be?


    *Canada's climate policy is badly internally inconsistent, but they talk a good game internationally at least.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  3. #183
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,212
    Amen (Given)
    127
    Amen (Received)
    453
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    Is that "taking it seriously" enough for your tastes, or would you care to define what would be?
    It's a small start. Now acknowledge the statement about "points of no return".

    Also, care to address the fact that the price of solar power is artificially low because of China's dumping, and that can't last?
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  4. #184
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northeast USA
    Faith
    MYOB
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,407
    Amen (Given)
    91
    Amen (Received)
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    It's a small start. Now acknowledge the statement about "points of no return".
    I've already addressed that at least twice in other threads, and just posted relevant information to it in a neighboring thread. I'm not here to jump through hoops for your satisfaction. The statement i quoted was meant as sarcasm, to highlight the fact that you have been consistently imputing things about other people here without ever once bothering to find out whether they're actually true first.

    It's a rather dishonest way to participate in a discussion. As i said earlier, it would be nice if you discontinued it.

    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Also, care to address the fact that the price of solar power is artificially low because of China's dumping, and that can't last?
    It's not clear that it matters. The actual panels are a relatively small cost in photovoltaic installation. The support hardware/inverters and siting and permitting fees are both substantially larger. Even if dumping were clearly occurring (and i haven't seen evidence confirming it has; please share if you have it), in the end of it doesn't look like it will raise costs enough to offset the large advantage that solar is developing.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  5. #185
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,212
    Amen (Given)
    127
    Amen (Received)
    453
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLurch View Post
    I've already addressed that at least twice in other threads, and just posted relevant information to it in a neighboring thread. I'm not here to jump through hoops for your satisfaction. The statement i quoted was meant as sarcasm, to highlight the fact that you have been consistently imputing things about other people here without ever once bothering to find out whether they're actually true first.

    It's a rather dishonest way to participate in a discussion. As i said earlier, it would be nice if you discontinued it.
    I impute these common characteristics about screaming about 'points of no returns', because they are typical of the 'sky is falling!!!!' crowd. You know this. If you take a different position, make it clear. If you've addressed it elsewhere, link the post. Otherwise what's the point of engagement

    Even if dumping were clearly occurring (and i haven't seen evidence confirming it has; please share if you have it
    Are you seriously saying that you were not aware that China was dumping solar technology on a massive scale? Just google 'china dumping solar' if you are seriously that ignorant.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  6. #186
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northeast USA
    Faith
    MYOB
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,407
    Amen (Given)
    91
    Amen (Received)
    581
    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    I impute these common characteristics about screaming about 'points of no returns', because they are typical of the 'sky is falling!!!!' crowd. You know this. If you take a different position, make it clear. If you've addressed it elsewhere, link the post. Otherwise what's the point of engagement.
    Where's the actual engagement if you straw man me constantly? Without any engagement, it's impossible for there to be a point to it.

    Here's something that should not be a newsflash: people who want to do something about climate change have a huge range of opinions about what they'd like to see done about it, and differ on how they feel the best way to build support for their favored options. That's the reality. Your approach in this discussion has been "i'm going to assume everyone who disagrees with me does so for reasons i dislike, and treat them accordingly."

    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Are you seriously saying that you were not aware that China was dumping solar technology on a massive scale? Just google 'china dumping solar' if you are seriously that ignorant.
    Try reading my statement more carefully. I'm aware of countless accusations of dumping. I'm not aware of the evidence showing those accusations are accurate. I do know that various trade organizations have imposed anti-dumping tariffs, but i have not seen the evidence they used to make the decision. Since you're the one who made the claim, it would seem asking you for the evidence would be appropriate.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  7. #187
    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northeast USA
    Faith
    MYOB
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,407
    Amen (Given)
    91
    Amen (Received)
    581
    Stumbled across this while at work today. Haven't checked the original paper, so, treat the press release with appropriate caution. But it's one of a huge number of surveys that show that trust in science has remained largely steady for many decades.

    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-amh111419.php

    This one's especially interesting given that it uses the General Social Survey, a non-commercial source of data that's got a long history, and (if i recall correctly) is fairly large.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  8. #188
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Hillsborough, NC
    Faith
    Agnostic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,368
    Amen (Given)
    1575
    Amen (Received)
    978
    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Observe how it's been derailed to 'who is currently the biggest polluter, and how do we define it'. Instead of facing facts, that in the next several decades the emissions of China + India alone, let alone the rest of the developing world, will skyrocket. Absolutely skyrocket, past how many more "points of no return".

    They're not serious about addressing the huge problem they claim exists, and it's not worth taking them too seriously.
    At present the pollution form China is decreasing, and as cited they are investing more than the USA, and have the largest production of hydroelectric power in the world.


    Source: https://www.channel3000.com//world-news/china-saves-hundreds-of-thousands-of-lives-by-reducing-air-pollution/1143713651news



    China saves hundreds of thousands of lives by reducing air pollution New research shows clean air policy successes

    By: Jack Guy, CNN
    Posted: Nov 19, 2019 02:17 PM CST Updated: Nov 19, 2019 02:17 PM CST

    China saves hundreds of thousands of lives by reducing air pollution

    (CNN) - China's raft of clean air policies saved hundreds of thousands of lives in 2017 alone, according to new research.

    Fine particle pollution declined rapidly following the implementation of new rules on industrial emissions and the promotion of clean fuels, according to the study, published Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (PNAS).

    The study, which focused on the period from 2013-2017, was conducted by a group of Chinese researchers and scientists.

    PM2.5 particulate matter, as this kind of pollution is known, is so small that it can enter the bloodstream, potentially leading to cancer, stroke and heart attack in the long term.

    After rapid industrialization and weak regulations left the country with a reputation for smog and bad air quality, Chinese authorities started to take air pollution seriously in 2008.

    In 2013, Beijing had PM2.5 concentrations 40 times higher than levels recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO), and the government introduced its toughest-ever clean air policies that year.

    The study found "significant declines" in PM2.5 levels across China from 2013-2017, coinciding with new standards for thermal power plants and industrial boilers, the replacement of old factories, and new emissions rules for vehicles.


    While the weather can also influence PM2.5 concentrations, the study found it had relatively little impact for the period of the study.

    The authors say this "confirms the effectiveness of China's recent clean air actions."

    © Copyright Original Source

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #189
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    In my house.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    15,582
    Amen (Given)
    10055
    Amen (Received)
    5775
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    No. While the overall volume is important, the volume for each country isn't.

    For one thing, CO2, the atmosphere and the global climate don't recognise national boundaries.

    But more relevantly, stating that the US produces more CO2 than Andorra doesn't really tell us anything. We'd expect that to be the case, because the US is so much bigger than Andorra. Just like we'd expect there to be more dentists in Canada than in Lichtenstein, and more hamburgers sold in Texas than in Rhode Island. If you want to make sensible comparisons between the performance of nations (or states/provinces/counties/etc) you need to compensate for size and population, and compare per capita values, or maybe per km2 values, or some combination of these. That way you might find that on average Texans eat 160 hamburgers per year while Rhode Islanders only eat 75, or that there is one dentist in Lichtenstein for every 1200 people, but Chinese dentists each serve 26200 people.*

    Egypt has about four times as many people as Australia. If the Egyptians and the Australians are producing similar amounts of pollution, Egypt would produce four times as much CO2 as Australia. If Egypt is producing more than four times as much as Australia, then the Egyptians are bigger polluters than Australians. If Egypt is producing less than four times as much as Australia, then it's the Australians that are the bigger polluters.




    *I made these numbers up, obviously
    Roy, I think you left out a word somewhere - or maybe I'm not following.

    I'll reread it tomorrow when I'm not so tired and get back to you.

  10. #190
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,744
    Amen (Given)
    696
    Amen (Received)
    1489
    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Roy, I think you left out a word somewhere - or maybe I'm not following.
    I can't locate any places with missing words, although the second sentence might have been better as While the global volume is important, the volume for each country isn't.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  11. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •