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Thread: List of Trump's crimes?

  1. #651
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Sure, Jim.
    .. Followed by another...

    Too bad you dont have the guts to actually address the point being made.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  2. #652
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    .. Followed by another...

    Too bad you dont have the guts to actually address the point being made.
    Sure, Jim.
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  3. #653
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    I agree with Democratic Congressman Jefferson Van Drew's views...

    While he considers the president's actions on Ukraine "unsavory," the congressman said he has yet to learn of anything that would persuade him Trump did something to warrant removal from office.

    No president has ever been removed from office, Van Drew, 66, points out. And to have a "small, elite group" of lawmakers do so when an election is less than a year away seems to him to be not only unfathomable but un-American.
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  5. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I agree with Democratic Congressman Jefferson Van Drew's views...

    While he considers the president's actions on Ukraine "unsavory," the congressman said he has yet to learn of anything that would persuade him Trump did something to warrant removal from office.

    No president has ever been removed from office, Van Drew, 66, points out. And to have a "small, elite group" of lawmakers do so when an election is less than a year away seems to him to be not only unfathomable but un-American.
    Backpedal, backpedal, one by one...
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  6. #655
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I think it's pretty naive to assume that because Biden hasn't been investigated, it therefore concludes his innocence. In fact, that's really naive. I wouldn't expect it to be investigated by someone who has an affinity to the Democratic party since every faucet of government (and as we've found out recently, this even includes the intelligence community) is pretty much entrenched in partisan tribalism. But it is being investigated now by Graham, and hopefully if the impeachment goes to the senate, it will be further looked into. And according to Solomon's sources -- the "Russian asset political rightwing hack" -- Biden's request for Shokin's ousting would have presumably occurred sometime between Victoria Nuland's demand that he be removed on March 15 and Biden's call to Poroshenko on March 22.

    Also, no one seems to know how the law pertains to a VP extorting another country with tax funds, even if it was for good intentions.
    I never claimed Biden was innocent because he hadn't been investigated.

    You don't seem to understand what the actual issue is but it seems common.

    Elected officials, and essentially all government personnel, are given powers to carry out their respective duties to advance the interests of the public.

    If their position gives them the power to withhold aid then you would be correct to say they are allowed to withhold aid, they are legitimately exercising a power they possess which is conditioned on their obligation to use it as described above.

    An abuse of power occurs when someone uses a power that they were given to solely advance their own interests. The power is given to them out of necessity to govern, not to personally benefit politically or financially.

    So the reason behind the exercise of the power is the issue that needs consideration.

    While Biden's situation could be seen as advancing his own interests in helping his son, it doesn't somehow invalidate the fact that there was a legitimate reason in using it, which is well documented with bipartisan and international support at that time.

    Trump used his power to set up his personal team in Ukraine. What public interest did they serve? The witnesses testified that they were an impediment to the foreign policy they were tasked to carry out. Their only interest, it seems, was to get the Ukrainians to publicly announce an investigation into the Bidens and Crowdstrike. They conditioned a white house visit on this announcement and aid was withheld under Trumps orders.

    The allegation here is that Trump used his powers with the purpose of forcing Ukraine to do something that would only benefit him personally. The withholding of aid is just the biggest alleged abuse of power due to the magnitude of what it represented and this is the only thing that people seem to focus on but the entire narrative laid out by the democrats and the witnesses during the inquiry shows multiple situations where power seems to have been abused in a systematic effort to use the Ukrainians for his own purpose. That's why every witness was not only relevant but also a direct witness to certain events that contributed to creating a clearer picture for the period that the allegations occurred.

    Trump can defend this by explaining how his actions were in the publics interest but all he seems to be doing is whining about how unfair everything is while blocking anyone he can from cooperating and insulting anyone that does. His tactic is to turn the public against this process when all he has to do is justify his actions like Biden did.

  7. #656
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermelon View Post
    I never claimed Biden was innocent because he hadn't been investigated.

    You don't seem to understand what the actual issue is but it seems common.

    Elected officials, and essentially all government personnel, are given powers to carry out their respective duties to advance the interests of the public.

    If their position gives them the power to withhold aid then you would be correct to say they are allowed to withhold aid, they are legitimately exercising a power they possess which is conditioned on their obligation to use it as described above.

    An abuse of power occurs when someone uses a power that they were given to solely advance their own interests. The power is given to them out of necessity to govern, not to personally benefit politically or financially.

    So the reason behind the exercise of the power is the issue that needs consideration.

    While Biden's situation could be seen as advancing his own interests in helping his son, it doesn't somehow invalidate the fact that there was a legitimate reason in using it, which is well documented with bipartisan and international support at that time.

    Trump used his power to set up his personal team in Ukraine. What public interest did they serve? The witnesses testified that they were an impediment to the foreign policy they were tasked to carry out. Their only interest, it seems, was to get the Ukrainians to publicly announce an investigation into the Bidens and Crowdstrike. They conditioned a white house visit on this announcement and aid was withheld under Trumps orders.

    The allegation here is that Trump used his powers with the purpose of forcing Ukraine to do something that would only benefit him personally. The withholding of aid is just the biggest alleged abuse of power due to the magnitude of what it represented and this is the only thing that people seem to focus on but the entire narrative laid out by the democrats and the witnesses during the inquiry shows multiple situations where power seems to have been abused in a systematic effort to use the Ukrainians for his own purpose. That's why every witness was not only relevant but also a direct witness to certain events that contributed to creating a clearer picture for the period that the allegations occurred.

    Trump can defend this by explaining how his actions were in the publics interest but all he seems to be doing is whining about how unfair everything is while blocking anyone he can from cooperating and insulting anyone that does. His tactic is to turn the public against this process when all he has to do is justify his actions like Biden did.
    Well, I'm certainly not going to debate you on the quid pro quo issue in regards to Trump. I don't think that's been proven, which is why we not only have the never-ending back and fourth about it on this forum, but now you have Dems starting to rethink the impeachment agenda. However, we KNOW for sure Biden did it because he's on video admitting it. Personally, I believe Trump was justified whether he directly engaged in it or not. But that's my question. Can the president extort a country with tax funds to achieve an agenda, whether well-intentioned or not? I say no, because without measures against this, it would allow for potential abuse of power and corruption by the president. But I honestly don't know the law on this issue, and no one seems to be talking about it.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  8. #657
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    . Can the president extort a country with tax funds to achieve an agenda, whether well-intentioned or not? I say no, because without measures against this, it would allow for potential abuse of power and corruption by the president. But I honestly don't know the law on this issue, and no one seems to be talking about it.
    Come on man, foreign aid is meant to achieve an agenda. It's the main point...

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...n-isnt-stopped
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...jerusalem-vote
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobo...o-cut-off-aid/
    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Bu...-to-cut-PA-aid
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...id_cutoff.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/19/w...h-koreans.html

    ...and examples abound.
    Last edited by demi-conservative; 12-02-2019 at 12:45 AM.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  9. #658
    tWebber
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    I know it's been done. My question is, is it officially legal?
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  10. #659
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I know it's been done. My question is, is it officially legal?
    I can't find any argument by Ron Paul against foreign aid on that basis, so it's not officially illegal.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  11. #660
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I agree with Democratic Congressman Jefferson Van Drew's views...

    While he considers the president's actions on Ukraine "unsavory," the congressman said he has yet to learn of anything that would persuade him Trump did something to warrant removal from office.

    No president has ever been removed from office, Van Drew, 66, points out. And to have a "small, elite group" of lawmakers do so when an election is less than a year away seems to him to be not only unfathomable but un-American.
    Just imagine the wall-to-wall coverage if a Republican Congressman called the actions of his party "un-American."

    I'm always still in trouble again

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