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Thread: List of Trump's crimes?

  1. #901
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It is no wonder no-one will answer this simple question:

    Do you acknowledge there is a difference between quid pro quo when the exchange is in the US national interests and when the only beneficiary is the individual engaged in the quid pro quo?
    Jim, I'm doing my best to avoid interaction with you, but this is simply not a true statement, as demonstrated here, here, and, directly responding to your post, here.

    I, most certainly, have responded to "this simple question".
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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  3. #902
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It is no wonder no-one will answer this simple question:

    Do you acknowledge there is a difference between quid pro quo when the exchange is in the US national interests and when the only beneficiary is the individual engaged in the quid pro quo?

    If you answer that question yes, then the error present in your comment:

    The US routinely puts conditions on foreign aid. It happens all the time.

    Is instantly obvious.

    The issue here is not 'quid pro quo' on behalf of the national interests of the US.

    The issue here is Trump engaging in 'quid pro quo' for his own personal gain, and not only that, AGAINST THE NATIONAL INTERESTS OF THE US.

    To not argue with an overt consciousness of the difference is beneath you Sparko, not to mention misleading.


    Jim
    I am not discussing politics with you Ox. JimL can answer for himself.

  4. #903
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I am not discussing politics with you Ox. JimL can answer for himself.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Why do you feel obligated to try to instigate something? It's none of your business. I just consider Ox a friend and don't want to be embroiled in political discussions with him.

  6. Amen Cow Poke, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  7. #905
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Jim, I'm doing my best to avoid interaction with you, but this is simply not a true statement, as demonstrated here, here, and, directly responding to your post, here.

    I, most certainly, have responded to "this simple question".
    I am referring to asking it of OBP in another thread. And I am referring to Sparko acting - in the comment referenced - as if there is no such difference.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

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  8. #906
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I am not discussing politics with you Ox. JimL can answer for himself.
    And the question would be 'why'. You discuss the same things and have the same disagreements with others here. They make similar accusations, and you make similar accusations back - but somehow you don't feel the need to try to cut them off.

    Clearly I can't stop you, but you, cp, and others are gradually engaging in an implicit group censure. And that is not a particularly 'friendly' thing to do. These has been nothing hostile in my posts of late. And yet you are still doing it.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    And the question would be 'why'. You discuss the same things and have the same disagreements with others here. They make similar accusations, and you make similar accusations back - but somehow you don't feel the need to try to cut them off.

    Clearly I can't stop you, but you, cp, and others are gradually engaging in an implicit group censure. And that is not a particularly 'friendly' thing to do. These has been nothing hostile in my posts of late. And yet you are still doing it.
    Because every time I engage with you, I get accused of twisting your words or attacking you when I am not. So I think it is best to just avoid engaging with you on political matters for both of our sanity and friendship.

  10. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  11. #908
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Jim, I'm doing my best to avoid interaction with you, but this is simply not a true statement, as demonstrated here, here, and, directly responding to your post, here.

    I, most certainly, have responded to "this simple question".
    The only one of those that even comes close to the context of this discussion is this reply:

    There's still the possibility that there was a request made in the national interest of the country that ALSO benefited Trump personally. I don't know, and neither do you.
    The context of my question to Sparko is that stating 'quid pro quo happens all the time' leaves out the critical defining clause that makes it ok - it must be in the national interest.

    That reply is in fact special pleading that there was some obscure potential element of 'in the best interest of the US' that just might justify it. Yet in point of fact it is very clear from the testimony of the diplomats deeply involved in the situation that simply is not the case. So I would say, we most certainly do know that this request only had the potential to benefit one person - Donald Trump.

    In the end the answer is:

    Quid pro quo is NOT ok if (1) is is solely to benefit the diplomat and/or (2) it is contrary to the best interests of the country. Holding this aid was NEVER in the best interests of the country. They are at war with Russia, they have shown significant strides in pushing back against corruption, and a very real danger exists to our best interests that by holding the aid we are enabling Russia to win and take back a struggling democracy that wants to be part of NATO and is looking to us for help. When that is contrasted with the only potential benefit being the 2020 Trump campaign, then we have abuse of power.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  12. #909
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    And the question would be 'why'. You discuss the same things and have the same disagreements with others here. They make similar accusations, and you make similar accusations back - but somehow you don't feel the need to try to cut them off.

    Clearly I can't stop you, but you, cp, and others are gradually engaging in an implicit group censure. And that is not a particularly 'friendly' thing to do. These has been nothing hostile in my posts of late. And yet you are still doing it.
    Every time I engage in discussion with you, it ends up producing far more heat than light. I am not saying the fault is yours; it may well be mine. Regardless, I seem to always end up regretting engagement with you, so I'm trying to politely avoid it. Please respect that.
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  13. Amen Cow Poke, RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  14. #910
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It is no wonder no-one will answer this simple question:

    Do you acknowledge there is a difference between quid pro quo when the exchange is in the US national interests and when the only beneficiary is the individual engaged in the quid pro quo?

    If you answer that question yes, then the error present in your comment:

    The US routinely puts conditions on foreign aid. It happens all the time.

    Is instantly obvious.

    The issue here is not 'quid pro quo' on behalf of the national interests of the US.

    The issue here is Trump engaging in 'quid pro quo' for his own personal gain, and not only that, AGAINST THE NATIONAL INTERESTS OF THE US.

    To not argue with an overt consciousness of the difference is beneath you Sparko, not to mention misleading.


    Jim
    I have also wondered why it is so difficult for some to see the obvious difference. When people fail to see or acknowledge what is obvious, it is usually a very good indication that they have a weak case.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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