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List of Trump's crimes?

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  • Originally posted by ke7ejx View Post
    Ox, you really do need help....Don't bother replying to this because I won't read it.

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    • So what you're saying is that it is used as a tool - money to be withheld - when governments don't behave the way we want? Then that is extortion.

      We send $2.5 billion per year to Israel and Egypt (collectively) so long as they don't fight each other. I don't really care if they fight each other - especially when those tax dollars could be better spent at home, if not returned to the tax payers in a tax cut.

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      • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
        So what you're saying is that it is used as a tool - money to be withheld - when governments don't behave the way we want? Then that is extortion.
        No, it's negotiation. It's what's called "soft power" as opposed to military intervention, or "hard power".
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          No, it's negotiation. It's what's called "soft power" as opposed to military intervention, or "hard power".
          So if a gangster tells a business "I won't break your windows if you pay me protection money" then that is "soft power"? Because it is nearly the same thing.

          Again with Israel and Egypt, they are saying "We'll behave so long as you pay us billions of dollars every year".

          One instance is bad enough, but pursuing this policy throughout the world is insanity.

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          • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
            So if a gangster tells a business "I won't break your windows if you pay me protection money" then that is "soft power"? Because it is nearly the same thing.
            This isn't that. Not by a long shot.

            Again with Israel and Egypt, they are saying "We'll behave so long as you pay us billions of dollars every year".

            One instance is bad enough, but pursuing this policy throughout the world is insanity.
            Citation, please.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              This isn't that. Not by a long shot.

              Citation, please.
              Here and here. It appears the payments are greater than I remembered. Approximately $1.5 billion to Egypt annually and about $3 billion to Israel annually.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...n_aid#Overview

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_D...he_Middle_East

              Originally posted by Wiki
              The agreement also resulted in the United States committing to several billion dollars worth of annual subsidies to the governments of both Israel and Egypt, subsidies which continue to this day, and are given as a mixture of grants and aid packages committed to purchasing U.S. materiel. From 1979 (the year of the peace agreement) to 1997, Egypt received military aid of US$1.3 billion annually, which also helped modernize the Egyptian military.[25] (This is beyond economic, humanitarian, and other aid, which has totaled more than US$25 billion.) Eastern-supplied until 1979, Egypt now received American weaponry such as the M1A1 Abrams Tank, AH-64 Apache gunship and the F-16 fighter jet. In comparison, Israel has received $3 billion annually since 1985 in grants and military aid packages.[26]
              Last edited by Ronson; 12-15-2019, 10:22 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                Okay, then, let's you and I take it up. Also, you're wrong about Sparky here.

                I admit, I wonder about you sometimes when you go overboard but you don't actually worry me because you are obviously still sane even when I think what you're saying is moronic. But the other Jim is actually worrying people with his over reactions - he literally compared himself to Christ in this thread. Come on - I know sometimes you like to butt heads but you're more than capable of seeing the difference here. You're angry and a little ornery about Trump - he's gone well past angry into near pathology and he's scaring people that care about him.

                So, wanna play? I'll even go get the relevant posts (since we aren't likely on the same page right now). Pretty sure I agreed with Sparky but I'll take his position regardless.
                You're only looking at one side, Tea. Jim loses his cool once in a while, but that's nothing compared to the ad hominums sent his way. There's an awfully lot of hypocrisy going on with Jims accusers.

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                • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                  Here and here. It appears the payments are greater than I remembered. Approximately $1.5 billion to Egypt annually and about $3 billion to Israel annually.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...n_aid#Overview

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_D...he_Middle_East
                  First of all... WIKI?

                  Secondly, I had done a quick scan and found those exact same sources, but fail to see where anybody from Egypt or Israel is threatening violence unless they get money.

                  Perhaps you can point that out.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    First of all... WIKI?

                    Secondly, I had done a quick scan and found those exact same sources, but fail to see where anybody from Egypt or Israel is threatening violence unless they get money.

                    Perhaps you can point that out.
                    It is inferred, since the Camp David Accord was to cement peace between the two nations - and part of that accord was an annual payoff. Carter didn't offer to pay them every year just because he's altruistic with US tax money.

                    Granted, there are many people in the US who would gladly send money to Israel because they consider it to be an island of democracy in a hostile region. OK, I get it. I don't agree but I get it. But Egypt?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      You're only looking at one side, Tea. Jim loses his cool once in a while, but that's nothing compared to the ad hominums sent his way. There's an awfully lot of hypocrisy going on with Jims accusers.
                      Jim, you really don't understand "hypocrisy".

                      Hypocrisy is not simply one side doing what the other side is doing.

                      It's when one of the sides claims something like "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets" - then acts the same as everybody else.

                      That's hypocrisy.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                        It is inferred,
                        Inferred*, yes, because you're inferring it - implied, no.

                        since the Camp David Accord was to cement peace between the two nations - and part of that accord was an annual payoff.
                        So, you're backing down from your failed "gangster" analogy, and kinda sorta admitting that the US is VOLUNTARILY giving the aid as incentives...

                        Granted, there are many people in the US who would gladly send money to Israel because they consider it to be an island of democracy in a hostile region. OK, I get it. I don't agree but I get it. But Egypt?
                        Egypt and Israel were bitter enemies - the rest of the Arab world was pretty unhappy when Egypt made peace with Israel, and the Israelis - I'm not thrilled about giving billions of dollars to other nations, either - but it's part of diplomacy. It's nowhere NEAR the mobster protection racket you portrayed.


                        *the writer/speaker can imply - the reader/hearer can infer
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                          So what you're saying is that it is used as a tool - money to be withheld - when governments don't behave the way we want? Then that is extortion.

                          We send $2.5 billion per year to Israel and Egypt (collectively) so long as they don't fight each other. I don't really care if they fight each other - especially when those tax dollars could be better spent at home, if not returned to the tax payers in a tax cut.
                          Quid pro quo, soft power, extortion, negotiation/diplomacy, bribery.

                          Tomayto, tomahto.
                          Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Inferred*, yes, because you're inferring it - implied, no.

                            So, you're backing down from your failed "gangster" analogy, and kinda sorta admitting that the US is VOLUNTARILY giving the aid as incentives...
                            It's along the same track. We're paying them to behave themselves - for eternity.

                            Egypt and Israel were bitter enemies - the rest of the Arab world was pretty unhappy when Egypt made peace with Israel, and the Israelis - I'm not thrilled about giving billions of dollars to other nations, either - but it's part of diplomacy. It's nowhere NEAR the mobster protection racket you portrayed.
                            What if India and Pakistan want the same deal from us? Or Brazil and Argentina, or any other hostile neighbors throughout the world? Why the special treatment for these two?

                            *the writer/speaker can imply - the reader/hearer can infer
                            I stand corrected. Thank you.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                              It's along the same track. We're paying them to behave themselves - for eternity.
                              A) that's your interpretation
                              2) it's not "for eternity" - it's until the policy changes

                              What if India and Pakistan want the same deal from us? Or Brazil and Argentina, or any other hostile neighbors throughout the world? Why the special treatment for these two?
                              Israel is a special case, surrounded on all sides by sworn enemies, and has been our only loyal ally in the region, with democratic / western values.

                              I stand corrected. Thank you.
                              A common error.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                You're only looking at one side, Tea. Jim loses his cool once in a while, but that's nothing compared to the ad hominums sent his way. There's an awfully lot of hypocrisy going on with Jims accusers.
                                It's not once in a while - and what he does is not okay at all as a Christian. But I will respect Sparky's wishes and leave it at that.
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                                Quill Sword

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