List of Trump's crimes?

[Teallaura]

In fact, he is a buffoon that has no idea how to ask a question and shows no interest in the answer.

No, that was a pretty tidy bit of cross examination. Maybe barristers just aren't as good.

[Teallaura]

It is authoritarian censorship across all government agencies. The banana republic goes bananas.
Only news favorable to the dear leader ......

Um, no, it's cancelling a subscription.

[JimL]

No, that was a pretty tidy bit of cross examination. Maybe barristers just aren't as good.

No it wasn't, it was basically a sermon aimed at the flock.

[Teallaura]

No it wasn't, it was basically a sermon aimed at the flock.

Yeah, it was. The problem is you guys have been stuck in the 6 am service and haven't woken up enough to realize you've been trying to read the hymnal.

[JimL]

Yeah, it was. The problem is you guys have been stuck in the 6 am service and haven't woken up enough to realize you've been trying to read the hymnal.

That's what one of the flock would say, Tea.

[Starlight]

And you're going to pretend that none of his CV was influenced by the fact that his father was a US Senator?

The children of rich and powerful people often get job opportunities out of proportion to their own skill, yes, that's how it often works. Even in the general job market for the normal person, it's usually "not what you know, but who you know", with the majority of jobs going to people with some sort of personal connection to the employer rather than being truly selected on the sheer merit of their CV out of the pool of mass applicants. The job market in general isn't, perhaps unfortunately, particularly strongly based on merit.

I have no doubt that some of Hunter Biden's job opportunities were a function of who his parents knew rather than being solely based on his own skill and merit with his CV being tested equally against everyone else. Looking at his CV, I would say his first job was most likely precisely that, with him landing a very cushy job straight out of law school with an accelerated path to senior management.

But 18 years later, by the time Hunter Biden was offered a seat on the board of Burisma, his CV was that of someone totally qualified for the role. The CEO was particularly after famous people, yes, and Hunter Biden qualified for that reason, but Hunter Biden by that point was perfectly qualified to be a company board member for Burisma based on his previous work history, regardless of whether he was famous.

And again, I say all this as someone who doesn't like Joe Biden at all.

[Cow Poke]

The children of rich and powerful people often get job opportunities out of proportion to their own skill, yes, that's how it often works. Even in the general job market for the normal person, it's usually "not what you know, but who you know", with the majority of jobs going to people with some sort of personal connection to the employer rather than being truly selected on the sheer merit of their CV out of the pool of mass applicants. The job market in general isn't, perhaps unfortunately, particularly strongly based on merit.

I have no doubt that some of Hunter Biden's job opportunities were a function of who his parents knew rather than being solely based on his own skill and merit with his CV being tested equally against everyone else. Looking at his CV, I would say his first job was most likely precisely that, with him landing a very cushy job straight out of law school with an accelerated path to senior management.

But 18 years later, by the time Hunter Biden was offered a seat on the board of Burisma, his CV was that of someone totally qualified for the role. The CEO was particularly after famous people, yes, and Hunter Biden qualified for that reason, but Hunter Biden by that point was perfectly qualified to be a company board member for Burisma based on his previous work history, regardless of whether he was famous.

And again, I say all this as someone who doesn't like Joe Biden at all.

I think you're being incredibly and unrealistically charitable here, but to each his own.

[Teallaura]

That's what one of the flock would say, Tea.

I know - just because you're all black sheep doesn't mean you're not flocking around, Sheepie-Boy!

[Cow Poke]

The children of rich and powerful people often get job opportunities out of proportion to their own skill, yes, that's how it often works. Even in the general job market for the normal person, it's usually "not what you know, but who you know", with the majority of jobs going to people with some sort of personal connection to the employer rather than being truly selected on the sheer merit of their CV out of the pool of mass applicants. The job market in general isn't, perhaps unfortunately, particularly strongly based on merit.

I have no doubt that some of Hunter Biden's job opportunities were a function of who his parents knew rather than being solely based on his own skill and merit with his CV being tested equally against everyone else. Looking at his CV, I would say his first job was most likely precisely that, with him landing a very cushy job straight out of law school with an accelerated path to senior management.

But 18 years later, by the time Hunter Biden was offered a seat on the board of Burisma, his CV was that of someone totally qualified for the role. The CEO was particularly after famous people, yes, and Hunter Biden qualified for that reason, but Hunter Biden by that point was perfectly qualified to be a company board member for Burisma based on his previous work history, regardless of whether he was famous.

And again, I say all this as someone who doesn't like Joe Biden at all.

From NPR - not exactly a bastion of conservative conspiracies...

What To Know About The Ukrainian Company At The Heart Of Trump's Biden Allegations

"It's more about ethics. If the son of a top politician receives some payments from a company for whatever reason, there's always a conflict of interests," says Alexander Paraschiy, the head of research at Concorde Capital, an investment firm in Kyiv.

Hunter Biden was paid about $50,000 a month as a Burisma director, according to The Wall Street Journal.

"It usually is a good investment for any Ukrainian businessman to hire some reputable guy or the relative of a reputable guy. It definitely paid off for Mr. Zlochevsky," says Paraschiy.

Zlochevsky expanded Burisma at the same time when he was Ukraine's environment minister, whose duties included issuing drilling licenses. After the bloody revolution on Kyiv's streets five years ago, Zlochevsky — like disgraced President Viktor Yanukovych — fled Ukraine.

Amid the political turmoil in Kyiv, Russia annexed Crimea and fomented an armed insurgency in eastern Ukraine. But hopes were high that the new Ukrainian government would at least start uprooting endemic corruption.

Burisma faced a money-laundering investigation and questions over how it had obtained some of its licenses to drill for natural gas. In spring 2014, the company appointed Hunter Biden and a former Polish president, Aleksander Kwasniewski, to its board. Three years later, Burisma added Cofer Black, a former CIA official and foreign policy adviser to Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, to the board.

"I believe the only reason Burisma and Zlochevsky were inviting people with such names was to whitewash their reputation and to present themselves as a company doing legitimate business in Ukraine," says Daria Kaleniuk, head of the nongovernmental Anti-Corruption Action Center in Kyiv.

[seanD]

I think you're being incredibly and unrealistically charitable here, but to each his own.

What he leaves out of course is the foreign policy coincidence surrounding that situation, something that makes the obvious and blatant case of nepotism here unique. Sure, it's a "conspiracy theory" (at least at the moment, though hopefully that will change when this goes to the Senate hearings and hear more info) to suggest nefarious political activity was occurring, but it's not a theory to know US foreign policy was heavily invested in Ukraine at the time, it just so happens to be a coincidence Hunter got hired by a hugely popular Ukrainian company at the time all these policies were taking place, putting the debate on whether he was qualified or not aside.

[JimL]

From NPR - not exactly a bastion of conservative conspiracies...

What To Know About The Ukrainian Company At The Heart Of Trump's Biden Allegations

"It's more about ethics. If the son of a top politician receives some payments from a company for whatever reason, there's always a conflict of interests," says Alexander Paraschiy, the head of research at Concorde Capital, an investment firm in Kyiv.

Hunter Biden was paid about $50,000 a month as a Burisma director, according to The Wall Street Journal.

"It usually is a good investment for any Ukrainian businessman to hire some reputable guy or the relative of a reputable guy. It definitely paid off for Mr. Zlochevsky," says Paraschiy.

Zlochevsky expanded Burisma at the same time when he was Ukraine's environment minister, whose duties included issuing drilling licenses. After the bloody revolution on Kyiv's streets five years ago, Zlochevsky — like disgraced President Viktor Yanukovych — fled Ukraine.

Amid the political turmoil in Kyiv, Russia annexed Crimea and fomented an armed insurgency in eastern Ukraine. But hopes were high that the new Ukrainian government would at least start uprooting endemic corruption.

Burisma faced a money-laundering investigation and questions over how it had obtained some of its licenses to drill for natural gas. In spring 2014, the company appointed Hunter Biden and a former Polish president, Aleksander Kwasniewski, to its board. Three years later, Burisma added Cofer Black, a former CIA official and foreign policy adviser to Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, to the board.

"I believe the only reason Burisma and Zlochevsky were inviting people with such names was to whitewash their reputation and to present themselves as a company doing legitimate business in Ukraine," says Daria Kaleniuk, head of the nongovernmental Anti-Corruption Action Center in Kyiv.

That Burisma wanted to whitewash it's corrupt reputation doesn't implicate Hunter Biden in any wrongdoing, and it certainly doesn't implicate Joe Biden. The fact is that the west, not only the U.S., but Europe, including the International Monetary Fund, wanted the Prosecutor, the corrupt Prosecutor General, in Ukraine, to be fired due to his corruption. Joe Biden was simply doing his Presidents bidding in the national security interests of the U.S. as well as in the best interests of Ukraine itself, in this legitimate type of quid pro quo and it was done openly and legitimately, not through secret back channels.

[Starlight]

Trying to get this thread back on topic...

Here's Fox News' Judge Napolitano's list of Trump's crimes:

• President Donald Trump has spent federal dollars not authorized by Congress.
  
  
• Separated families and incarcerated children at the Texas-Mexico border in defiance of a federal court order.
  
  
• Pulled 1,000 American troops out of Syria ignoring a commitment to allies and facilitated war against civilians there.
  
  
• Sent 2,000 American troops to Saudi Arabia without a congressional authorization or declaration of war.
  
  
• Criminally obstructed a Department of Justice investigation of himself, but escaped prosecution because of the intercession of an attorney general more loyal to him than to the Constitution.
  
  
• Violated the Emoluments Clause of the constitution, also calling the clause "phony" in violation of his constitutionally-mandated oath to faithfully uphold the Constitution.

Judge Napolitano has also said he thinks the Ukraine quid pro quo was "both criminal and impeachable behavior".


It is not clear to me why he thinks his third point (Pulling troops out of Syria leading to Turkish incursions) to be a crime, and I am not sure what law(s) or constitutional requirements it would break. But I agree with his other points.

[firstfloor]

I just got back from buying War Bonds, so I'm good.

Gerrymandering - when politicians choose their voters. In a democracy, it’s the other way about.

If you are with Trump, you are with Putin, and against Ukraine.

[firstfloor]

Trump’s defence will soon move to suggest that he is too stupid to commit a crime; the facts of the crime itself now being indisputable, says lawyer Andrew Torrez.

[Starlight]

Trump’s defence will soon move to suggest that he is too stupid to commit a crime

Republicans have already floated that view to try to support Trump. Trump responded by angrily denying it on twitter and asserting he is totally smart enough to commit crimes.