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Thread: List of Trump's crimes?

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    tWebber
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    List of Trump's crimes?

    Is President Donald Trump guilty of any crimes and if so what are they?

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Beating Hillary in 2016



    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  3. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Being an uncouth jackass


    ETA: Are there couth jackasses?
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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Here is a complete list of crimes Trump has committed since winning the presidency:












    Remember, these are only the crimes for which we currently have compelling evidence. The list will no doubt be amended as more evidence is discovered.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Being an uncouth jackass


    ETA: Are there couth jackasses?
    Um...




    Definitely not








    00000000000000a00aa0d.gif

    Speaks for hisself










    Wait. What's this?

    00000000000000ab000-00aaaa.jpg

    We might have your winner

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    A list of his crimes...

    • Bribery / Extortion / Campaign finance violations with regard to withholding US military aid from Ukraine in exchange for personal political favors with regard to undermining his political opponents. This has been testified to by multiple witnesses who were there at the time, and admitted to by Trump and his Chief of Staff on live TV.

    • Sexual assaults. At least 23 women have said that Trump sexually assaulted them, with a book last month on the subject suggesting there are another 43 women who have reported sexual misconduct by Trump. This is consistent with Trump's own self-described behavior on the audio tape with Billy Bush which came out just before the election, in which Trump said he sexually assaults beautiful women regularly.

    • Emoluments clause violations. The Constitution has a section forbidding the President from receiving gifts and bribes from foreign nations and entities. Trump appears to regularly receive gifts and bribes from foreign nations, eg Saudi Arabia booked hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of rooms at Trump hotels and paid for them but didn't stay in them. Then Trump did a multi-billion dollar weapons deal with them despite the objections of congress. This is one of many instances and Trump appears to violate the emoluments clause of the constitution frequently.

    • Campaign finance violation - Stormy Daniels. In the lead up to the election, Trump and Michael Cohen his lawyer directed $130k in hush money to Stormy Daniels to silence her on the subject of an affair she'd had with Trump which it was believed might affect the election outcome if known. They did not go through correct legal procedure to make this payment, as things done for election benefit have to have the money come from the correct sources (the electoral campaign's funds) and the paperwork done correctly (this is, in general, a law designed to stop people funding their election campaigns from dodgy sources). Michael Cohen is currently in federal prison due to this and other crimes. Trump was stated to be his criminal co-conspirator during the trial.

    • Obstruction of justice - the Mueller probe. Mueller's report examined both Trump's conduct with the Russians prior to the election and Trump's obstructionist actions toward the investigation into him after it. It is, of course, illegal to obstruct a judicial investigation into your crimes, because of the possibility that this stops the investigators finding relevant evidence that would have proved you did those crimes. While Mueller was only able to find limited evidence regard Trump's personal interactions with the Russians, perhaps at least in part due to obstruction, he did identify more than 8 times in which Trump demonstrably obstructed justice. The charge for obstruction of justice has 3 components that must be proved for a given action to be illegal: an obstructive act, a nexus between the act and an official proceeding, and corrupt intent. Mueller found that in 4 instances there was strong evidence for all three parts of a corruption charge, and that in another 4 instances there was decent evidence for all three parts of such a charge.

    • Using a charity for personal profit. In a recent NY court case, the court found that Trump and his family have been using the 'charities' they run as if they were a personal slush fund, and spending the money for personal gain that other people have donated to the charity. Trump's family, including Trump, have had limitations placed on their ability to ever run a charity again, been fined $2 million, and admitted personal guilt.

    • Tax evasion, Money Laundering, Bank fraud... These ones are speculative, but there is reasonable evidence that after Trump lost the $400m he inherited from his father in his various failed businesses, he turned to money laundering to prop up his failing businesses, basically allowing Russian mobsters to 'clean' their money dirty money that had come from objectionable sources by siphoning it through his various buildings and golf courses, while Trump kept a percentage of it. He then appears to have kept three sets of financial accounts, giving one to the IRS claiming he was totally broke and making losses every year, giving one to the banks claiming he was Totally Making Heaps of money and that they should feel safe lending him more money, and one real set. IMO the evidence for these crimes is pretty serious, but I would understand if a person wanted to dismiss these as unproven and speculative (as compared to the others listed above).


    Other concerning behaviors which I don't believe are formally crimes in and of themselves, but would certainly fail any legally applicable ethics standards:

    • Nepotism. He appointed unqualified family members to positions of power.

    • Profiting off the presidency. He appears to be trying to systematically funnel government money into his own pockets, by requiring government departments (e.g. DoD) to rent space in Trump Tower at inflated prices. He also appears to be charging the Secret Service inflated prices for accommodation / golf cart rental etc from Trump properties as they have to follow Trump around as he chooses to spend much of his time at his private resorts rather than in the White House. The Secret Service ended up balking at the amount Trump was trying to stiff them for accommodation in Trump Tower and end up opting for accommodation elsewhere. Trump's most recent attempt to give a no-bid contract to host the G7 to his Florida resort was stymied due to across the board outrage at this obvious attempt to funnel government money to his businesses.


    And of course, no list would be complete without a list of Trump's undesirable personal traits which are neither illegal nor unethical, but merely unfitting and inappropriate for a president and the office he holds:

    • His Twitter use. There are ways to use Twitter that are fine. Lots of politicians use Twitter. Somehow, someway, Trump manages to make everyone roll their eyes at the way he uses Twitter.

    • His pathological lying. The amount Trump lies is off the charts. We haven't seen anything like it before from any politician in public life. It seems to be some sort of mental disorder where he just lies constantly about everything even when it's not remotely necessary.

    • His divisiveness. With other Presidents, the nation under them has been divided in spite of their best efforts to unite it. Other Presidents have tried to be Presidents of both those who voted for them and those who voted against them, they've done their best to unite the country. With Trump, he's deliberately divisive. He doesn't try to unite the country. He's not interested in doing that. He just attacks those he views as his opponents.

    • His attacks on the media. It's one thing to critique the press. It's altogether another to go after it relentlessly and endlessly. Saying "Fake News" til the cows come home, isn't helpful, nor appropriate. Freedom of the press is in the first amendment, and the President needs to respect that.
    Last edited by Starlight; 11-11-2019 at 03:50 PM.

  8. Amen shunyadragon, JimL, Seeker, Timothy amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Beating Hillary in 2016
    I'm glad he did.

    Better 4 years of Trump imploding the Republican party and hopefully destroying it forever, thus allowing a progressive like Sanders or Warren to be elected in 2020 with sweeping Democrat majorities in congress, than having an unpopular centrist Dem like Hillary do nothing useful for 4 years while getting more and more unpopular and then allowing the Republicans time to find a decent candidate (unlike their large selection of loser candidates in 2016) and then having Republicans sweep to victory in congress and the Presidency in 2020.

  10. Amen Seeker amen'd this post.
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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    A list of his crimes...

    • Bribery / Extortion / Campaign finance violations with regard to withholding US military aid from Ukraine in exchange for personal political favors with regard to undermining his political opponents. This has been testified to by multiple witnesses who were there at the time, and admitted to by Trump and his Chief of Staff on live TV.

    • Sexual assaults. At least 23 women have said that Trump sexually assaulted them, with a book last month on the subject suggesting there are another 43 women who have reported sexual misconduct by Trump. This is consistent with Trump's own self-described behavior on the audio tape with Billy Bush which came out just before the election, in which Trump said he sexually assaults beautiful women regularly.

    • Emoluments clause violations. The Constitution has a section forbidding the President from receiving gifts and bribes from foreign nations and entities. Trump appears to regularly receive gifts and bribes from foreign nations, eg Saudi Arabia booked hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of rooms at Trump hotels and paid for them but didn't stay in them. Then Trump did a multi-billion dollar weapons deal with them despite the objections of congress. This is one of many instances and Trump appears to violate the emoluments clause of the constitution frequently.

    • Campaign finance violation - Stormy Daniels. In the lead up to the election, Trump and Michael Cohen his lawyer directed $130k in hush money to Stormy Daniels to silence her on the subject of an affair she'd had with Trump which it was believed might affect the election outcome if known. They did not go through correct legal procedure to make this payment, as things done for election benefit have to have the money come from the correct sources (the electoral campaign's funds) and the paperwork done correctly (this is, in general, a law designed to stop people funding their election campaigns from dodgy sources). Michael Cohen is currently in federal prison due to this and other crimes. Trump was stated to be his criminal co-conspirator during the trial.

    • Obstruction of justice - the Mueller probe. Mueller's report examined both Trump's conduct with the Russians prior to the election and Trump's obstructionist actions toward the investigation into him after it. It is, of course, illegal to obstruct a judicial investigation into your crimes, because of the possibility that this stops the investigators finding relevant evidence that would have proved you did those crimes. While Mueller was only able to find limited evidence regard Trump's personal interactions with the Russians, perhaps at least in part due to obstruction, he did identify more than 8 times in which Trump demonstrably obstructed justice. The charge for obstruction of justice has 3 components that must be proved for a given action to be illegal: an obstructive act, a nexus between the act and an official proceeding, and corrupt intent. Mueller found that in 4 instances there was strong evidence for all three parts of a corruption charge, and that in another 4 instances there was decent evidence for all three parts of such a charge.

    • Using a charity for personal profit. In a recent NY court case, the court found that Trump and his family have been using the 'charities' they run as if they were a personal slush fund, and spending the money for personal gain that other people have donated to the charity. Trump's family, including Trump, have had limitations placed on their ability to ever run a charity again, been fined $2 million, and admitted personal guilt.

    • Tax evasion, Money Laundering, Bank fraud... These ones are speculative, but there is reasonable evidence that after Trump lost the $400m he inherited from his father in his various failed businesses, he turned to money laundering to prop up his failing businesses, basically allowing Russian mobsters to 'clean' their money dirty money that had come from objectionable sources by siphoning it through his various buildings and golf courses, while Trump kept a percentage of it. He then appears to have kept three sets of financial accounts, giving one to the IRS claiming he was totally broke and making losses every year, giving one to the banks claiming he was Totally Making Heaps of money and that they should feel safe lending him more money, and one real set. IMO the evidence for these crimes is pretty serious, but I would understand if a person wanted to dismiss these as unproven and speculative (as compared to the others listed above).


    Other concerning behaviors which I don't believe are formally crimes in and of themselves, but would certainly fail any legally applicable ethics standards:

    • Nepotism. He appointed unqualified family members to positions of power.

    • Profiting off the presidency. He appears to be trying to systematically funnel government money into his own pockets, by requiring government departments (e.g. DoD) to rent space in Trump Tower at inflated prices. He also appears to be charging the Secret Service inflated prices for accommodation / golf cart rental etc from Trump properties as they have to follow Trump around as he chooses to spend much of his time at his private resorts rather than in the White House. The Secret Service ended up balking at the amount Trump was trying to stiff them for accommodation in Trump Tower and end up opting for accommodation elsewhere. Trump's most recent attempt to give a no-bid contract to host the G7 to his Florida resort was stymied due to across the board outrage at this obvious attempt to funnel government money to his businesses.


    And of course, no list would be complete without a list of Trump's undesirable personal traits which are neither illegal nor unethical, but merely unfitting and inappropriate for a president and the office he holds:

    • His Twitter use. There are ways to use Twitter that are fine. Lots of politicians use Twitter. Somehow, someway, Trump manages to make everyone roll their eyes at the way he uses Twitter.

    • His pathological lying. The amount Trump lies is off the charts. We haven't seen anything like it before from any politician in public life. It seems to be some sort of mental disorder where he just lies constantly about everything even when it's not remotely necessary.

    • His divisiveness. With other Presidents, the nation under them has been divided in spite of their best efforts to unite it. Other Presidents have tried to be Presidents of both those who voted for them and those who voted against them, they've done their best to unite the country. With Trump, he's deliberately divisive. He doesn't try to unite the country. He's not interested in doing that. He just attacks those he views as his opponents.

    • His attacks on the media. It's one thing to critique the press. It's altogether another to go after it relentlessly and endlessly. Saying "Fake News" til the cows come home, isn't helpful, nor appropriate. Freedom of the press is in the first amendment, and the President needs to respect that.
    I see lots of assertions and things that are not crimes. Too bad being mean to people Starlight likes, isnít a crime.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  12. Amen Mountain Man, RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I'm glad he did.

    Better 4 years of Trump imploding the Republican party and hopefully destroying it forever, thus allowing a progressive like Sanders or Warren to be elected in 2020 with sweeping Democrat majorities in congress, than having an unpopular centrist Dem like Hillary do nothing useful for 4 years while getting more and more unpopular and then allowing the Republicans time to find a decent candidate (unlike their large selection of loser candidates in 2016) and then having Republicans sweep to victory in congress and the Presidency in 2020.
    Whatever you're smoking must be the really good stuff, Star.
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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I see lots of assertions and things that are not crimes. Too bad being mean to people Starlight likes, isnít a crime.
    Lots of accusations, but no evidence that any crimes were committed.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  15. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.

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