List of Trump's crimes?

[Cow Poke]

A judge would be entitled to remind a jury what the Fifth Amendment actually says -

No. "Entitled"? That would be the prosecutor's role.

No - a judge would be prejudicial in making such a statement - that would definitely be siding with the prosecution.

[oxmixmudd]

Dude! no - you can't be saying things like that no matter how frustrated you are!

[Cow Poke]

Dude! no - you can't be saying things like that no matter who frustrated you are!

As obsessed with Trump as I accuse you of being, Jim, I know there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that any kind of thought like that would even enter your mind --- but this is not so unusual for the loony left. Murder, decapitation, etc are not at all out of bounds.

[oxmixmudd]

"Obstruction of Congress" is not a crime. It's called "separation of powers" and "executive privilege". The president does not serve at the pleasure of Congress. If Congress wanted their subpoenas to have teeth then all they had to do was vote to make the investigation official, which they adamantly refused to do.

This whole idea that Trump, if he's innocent, should be willing to submit his people to interrogation by Congress is absurd. Let's put it this way: If the police come to you and say, "You're not under arrest or anything, but would you mind coming down to the station to answer a few questions? You know, just to clear your name," you say no!

Except that if the congress has no means to investigate, then it has little or no means to impeach (remember, the DOJ can't/won't indict a sitting president), and impeachment then becomes a paper dragon with no capacity to control the executive branch. The 'check' in 'checks and balances' is removed. Convenient when you are so partisanly blind you will tolerate any crime or evil deed if the president is in your party, but insofar as its effect on one of the core distinctnesses and safeguards of our freedom, devastating.

[firstfloor]

The Republicans refuse to cooperate with the Democrat party's witch hunt! How dare they!

[Cow Poke]

Had the Democrats gone about this in anything but a deranged "Get Trump at ALL COSTS" manner, it would be a whole different ballgame. The very fact that they have one of the most partisan anti-Trump liberals being both "judge" and "prosecutor" in the impeachment hearings suggests this, indeed, is pretty much a witch hunt.

[firstfloor]

It a amazes me that the loony left is usually so rabidly anti-gun, except when their hatred causes them to say things (like murdering POTUS) that, in another era, would have raised the attention of the Secret Service.

I'm tending to think this is not a case of hypocrisy, but one of insanity.

I would kindly suggest dropping any such discussion of fatal attraction to POTUS on this board, ff, because we don't need the liability.

[Cow Poke]

(I had a further response, but your acknowledgment is sufficient for me to ... um.... "the gentleman will suspend")

[oxmixmudd]

As obsessed with Trump as I accuse you of being, Jim, I know there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that any kind of thought like that would even enter your mind --- but this is not so unusual for the loony left. Murder, decapitation, etc are not at all out of bounds.

It's a problem in both sides CP. And it's probably going to get worse before it gets better. Which is why I've tried to tone down my own responses as well.

I will take this opportunity to make a correction though in the hopes that if I repeat this truth enough times perhaps you will notice it's true implications.

I am not obsessed with trump. I am truly fearful of what Trump represents in terms of the effect the sort of person he is can have is having on the internal unity, honor, and dignity of our country, its ideals, and on the stability of our relationship with world, both in the deterioration of trust with our allies, and the ground we are giving up to our enemies. I do not understand how so many can be so blind as to the dangers we face from what he is bringing to the table. Those same people seem to understand the dangers of socialism, or too much government, or amorality, but are blind to this. And it's not so much the dangers you can see coming down the road that will get you as the dangers you can't see, that you are blind to.

[firstfloor]

Had the Democrats gone about this in anything but a deranged "Get Trump at ALL COSTS" manner, it would be a whole different ballgame. The very fact that they have one of the most partisan anti-Trump liberals being both "judge" and "prosecutor" in the impeachment hearings suggests this, indeed, is pretty much a witch hunt.

[Cow Poke]

It's a problem in both sides CP.

How many times have I said that, Jim? And you seem only to notice when I'm "defending" Trump. I'm defending the PROCESS, and attacking the loonies.

And it's probably going to get worse before it gets better. Which is why I've tried to tone down my own responses as well.

I was thinking the same thing --- I'm not mad at you, but I'm pretty amazed at your apparent obsession with Trump. "Vengeance is mine, says the Lord" kind of thing. God is in control, and if both sides could calm down a bit, the truth can come out.

I will take this opportunity to make a correction though in the hopes that if I repeat this truth enough times perhaps you will notice it's true implications. I am not obsessed with trump.

Jim - it's pretty much all you ever post about anymore. You rarely (correct me if I'm wrong) engage in discussions of anything but, except briefly like in the SpaceX thread.

I am truly fearful of what Trump represents in terms of the effect the sort of person he is can have is having on the internal unity, honor, and dignity of our country, its ideals, and on the stability of our relationship with world, both in the deterioration of trust with our allies, and the ground we are giving up to our enemies. I do not understand how so many can be so blind as to the dangers we face from what he is bringing to the table. Those same people seem to understand the dangers of socialism, or too much government, or amorality, but are blind to this. And it's not so much the dangers you can see coming down the road that will get you as the dangers you can't see, that you are blind to.

Here's what I think --- Trump is a royal jackass. One of the reasons he was elected was because DC was such a cesspool on BOTH SIDES with political infighting and corruption that SOMEBODY needed to upset the system, and Trump certainly has done that. The fact that he goes to excess MAY awaken people to the fact that things need to change, and change DRASTICALLY.

Unfortunately, all that is happening is that the left, instead of recognizing that this is an opportunity for them to "be the adults in the room" --- they're sinking to his level.

Just imagine how incredibly different this would have been if Pelosi and Schiff had said --- "OK, we have a nightmare on our hands, but we need to handle this as adults, and it needs to NOT look like a political ambush or nuclear war... we need cooler heads to prevail, and we need to 'work the problem', and not just fan the flames...."

It would be a TOTAL different ballgame. But the loony left can't help themselves -- they've made this as politically divisive and vicious as it can be.

[Cow Poke]

This is an INVESTIGATION.

You can type that in caps, bold it, making it the biggest size possible, put it in red, make it blink --- but it's still the Pelosi and Schiff show doing anything in their power to get rid of Trump from even before he took the oath of office.

[oxmixmudd]

How many times have I said that, Jim? And you seem only to notice when I'm "defending" Trump. I'm defending the PROCESS, and attacking the loonies.

That statement was in effect implying it was only a problem on one side. I was not trying to offend you, just point out the implications of the statement was incorrect.

I was thinking the same thing --- I'm not mad at you, but I'm pretty amazed at your apparent obsession with Trump. "Vengeance is mine, says the Lord" kind of thing. God is in control, and if both sides could calm down a bit, the truth can come out.

I am appalled and Trumps deeds and actions yes. But I would be appalled at anyone with the same deeds and actions in the office of POTUS. That is why I'm trying to correct you. It is not the person, but what the person is doing.


If Trump stopped doing the bad things and started doing good things I'd be all for Trump. It's not 'Trump', it is what Trump has done and is doing.

Jim - it's pretty much all you ever post about anymore. You rarely (correct me if I'm wrong) engage in discussions of anything but, except briefly like in the SpaceX thread.

At this point, many people are not engaging me at all because of the stand I have taken on Trump. And when they do, they start ragging on me the man and ruining whatever other thread I try to be a part of, like what happened in the AGW thread in Nat Sci. So I don't have much else I can post about and have people engage me in any sort of real conversation. I'm sure you think that is all my fault, but I would say when you have several people like pix that can only engage me in hysterical rants about who I am as a person, you would be wrong.

Here's what I think --- Trump is a royal jackass. One of the reasons he was elected was because DC was such a cesspool on BOTH SIDES with political infighting and corruption that SOMEBODY needed to upset the system, and Trump certainly has done that. The fact that he goes to excess MAY awaken people to the fact that things need to change, and change DRASTICALLY.

Unfortunately, all that is happening is that the left, instead of recognizing that this is an opportunity for them to "be the adults in the room" --- they're sinking to his level.

Just imagine how incredibly different this would have been if Pelosi and Schiff had said --- "OK, we have a nightmare on our hands, but we need to handle this as adults, and it needs to NOT look like a political ambush or nuclear war... we need cooler heads to prevail, and we need to 'work the problem', and not just fan the flames...."

It would be a TOTAL different ballgame. But the loony left can't help themselves -- they've made this as politically divisive and vicious as it can be.

Yeah, It would be nice if both sides could be adults and take their responsibility to the constitution and this country seriously. As it is, I still would say the Democrats are doing a much better job of it than the republicans, even though neither is doing it particularly well. Although I would quality that with the fact that is only likely true because the super jerk president is not a democrat. But I never expected the Republican party to willingly become the minions of such a man. That is perhaps the most significant eye opener of this whole thing. To watch the GOP which campaigned on the side of morality and evangelical Christian issues for so many years and decades throw every ounce of integrity and backbone to the wind so as to retain political power. And the sad thing is, as bad as I know the Clintons were, as bad as I have understood so many on the 'liberal left' to be, at this juncture, the GOP has sunk below all that and become even worse (if they were not already). Perhaps it is just my own naivete to think there were any in government with a backbone and a moral compass.

I do believe McCain was such a man.

[Mountain Man]

I can tell you didn't read the article.

Also, the judge would be entitled to do no such thing, and in fact the judge showing undue preference for the prosecution would probably result in a mistrial.

[Cow Poke]

That statement was in effect implying it was only a problem on one side. I was not trying to offend you, just point out the implications of the statement was incorrect.

Before I respond to the rest of your post, can we PLEASE get past this "offend you" stuff? I am not easily offended, angered, upset, set off, outraged, etc.... I am occasionally surprised, disappointed or amused, but can we PLEASE stop assuming negative emotion on my part where there is none?