Originally posted by ke7ejx
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List of Trump's crimes?
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Originally posted by demi-conservative View PostCome on man, foreign aid is meant to achieve an agenda. It's the main point...
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...n-isnt-stopped
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...jerusalem-vote
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobo...o-cut-off-aid/
https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Bu...-to-cut-PA-aid
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...id_cutoff.html
https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/19/w...h-koreans.html
...and examples abound.
We send $2.5 billion per year to Israel and Egypt (collectively) so long as they don't fight each other. I don't really care if they fight each other - especially when those tax dollars could be better spent at home, if not returned to the tax payers in a tax cut.
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostSo what you're saying is that it is used as a tool - money to be withheld - when governments don't behave the way we want? Then that is extortion.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo, it's negotiation. It's what's called "soft power" as opposed to military intervention, or "hard power".
Again with Israel and Egypt, they are saying "We'll behave so long as you pay us billions of dollars every year".
One instance is bad enough, but pursuing this policy throughout the world is insanity.
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostSo if a gangster tells a business "I won't break your windows if you pay me protection money" then that is "soft power"? Because it is nearly the same thing.
Again with Israel and Egypt, they are saying "We'll behave so long as you pay us billions of dollars every year".
One instance is bad enough, but pursuing this policy throughout the world is insanity.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThis isn't that. Not by a long shot.
Citation, please.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...n_aid#Overview
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_D...he_Middle_East
Originally posted by WikiThe agreement also resulted in the United States committing to several billion dollars worth of annual subsidies to the governments of both Israel and Egypt, subsidies which continue to this day, and are given as a mixture of grants and aid packages committed to purchasing U.S. materiel. From 1979 (the year of the peace agreement) to 1997, Egypt received military aid of US$1.3 billion annually, which also helped modernize the Egyptian military.[25] (This is beyond economic, humanitarian, and other aid, which has totaled more than US$25 billion.) Eastern-supplied until 1979, Egypt now received American weaponry such as the M1A1 Abrams Tank, AH-64 Apache gunship and the F-16 fighter jet. In comparison, Israel has received $3 billion annually since 1985 in grants and military aid packages.[26]Last edited by Ronson; 12-15-2019, 10:22 PM.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostOkay, then, let's you and I take it up. Also, you're wrong about Sparky here.
I admit, I wonder about you sometimes when you go overboard but you don't actually worry me because you are obviously still sane even when I think what you're saying is moronic. But the other Jim is actually worrying people with his over reactions - he literally compared himself to Christ in this thread. Come on - I know sometimes you like to butt heads but you're more than capable of seeing the difference here. You're angry and a little ornery about Trump - he's gone well past angry into near pathology and he's scaring people that care about him.
So, wanna play? I'll even go get the relevant posts (since we aren't likely on the same page right now). Pretty sure I agreed with Sparky but I'll take his position regardless.
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostHere and here. It appears the payments are greater than I remembered. Approximately $1.5 billion to Egypt annually and about $3 billion to Israel annually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...n_aid#Overview
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_D...he_Middle_East
Secondly, I had done a quick scan and found those exact same sources, but fail to see where anybody from Egypt or Israel is threatening violence unless they get money.
Perhaps you can point that out.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostFirst of all... WIKI?
Secondly, I had done a quick scan and found those exact same sources, but fail to see where anybody from Egypt or Israel is threatening violence unless they get money.
Perhaps you can point that out.
Granted, there are many people in the US who would gladly send money to Israel because they consider it to be an island of democracy in a hostile region. OK, I get it. I don't agree but I get it. But Egypt?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou're only looking at one side, Tea. Jim loses his cool once in a while, but that's nothing compared to the ad hominums sent his way. There's an awfully lot of hypocrisy going on with Jims accusers.
Hypocrisy is not simply one side doing what the other side is doing.
It's when one of the sides claims something like "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets" - then acts the same as everybody else.
That's hypocrisy.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostIt is inferred,
since the Camp David Accord was to cement peace between the two nations - and part of that accord was an annual payoff.
Granted, there are many people in the US who would gladly send money to Israel because they consider it to be an island of democracy in a hostile region. OK, I get it. I don't agree but I get it. But Egypt?
*the writer/speaker can imply - the reader/hearer can inferThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostSo what you're saying is that it is used as a tool - money to be withheld - when governments don't behave the way we want? Then that is extortion.
We send $2.5 billion per year to Israel and Egypt (collectively) so long as they don't fight each other. I don't really care if they fight each other - especially when those tax dollars could be better spent at home, if not returned to the tax payers in a tax cut.
Tomayto, tomahto.Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostInferred*, yes, because you're inferring it - implied, no.
So, you're backing down from your failed "gangster" analogy, and kinda sorta admitting that the US is VOLUNTARILY giving the aid as incentives...
Egypt and Israel were bitter enemies - the rest of the Arab world was pretty unhappy when Egypt made peace with Israel, and the Israelis - I'm not thrilled about giving billions of dollars to other nations, either - but it's part of diplomacy. It's nowhere NEAR the mobster protection racket you portrayed.
*the writer/speaker can imply - the reader/hearer can infer
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostIt's along the same track. We're paying them to behave themselves - for eternity.
2) it's not "for eternity" - it's until the policy changes
What if India and Pakistan want the same deal from us? Or Brazil and Argentina, or any other hostile neighbors throughout the world? Why the special treatment for these two?
I stand corrected. Thank you.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou're only looking at one side, Tea. Jim loses his cool once in a while, but that's nothing compared to the ad hominums sent his way. There's an awfully lot of hypocrisy going on with Jims accusers."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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