List of Trump's crimes?

[whag]

Sondland was grilled during the hearing, and he consistently said that he was acting on his own presumption and not on any direct orders from the President.

Regarding the aid being withheld, yes, they need something more than the mere act of the aid being withheld to prove their case that a crime was committed, because withholding aid is not a crime in and of itself. Something like a memo, or an email, or a firsthand witness who received an order directly from the President. Until you have that, then the act of aid being withheld is not evidence of a crime.

Obviously the mysterious circumstances under which the aid is withheld, with nobody having any vested interest for doing so but Trump, warrants an investigation. Having admitted that all that’s needed is an email or memo to prove a crime, you basically confirm that further inquiry was warranted.

[Mountain Man]

Obviously the mysterious circumstances under which the aid is withheld, with nobody having any vested interest for doing so but Trump, warrants an investigation. Having admitted that all that’s needed is an email or memo to prove a crime, you basically confirm that further inquiry was warranted.

No, that's not what I said. What I actually said is that since withholding aid is not a crime in and of itself, nor does it suggest a crime, then there's literally nothing to investigate. It'd be like the cops seeing you withdraw $5000 from the bank and then using that as a basis to launch an investigation where your friends and family are forced to testify to see if you're planning to do anything illegal with the money.

[Sparko]

I think a more accurate analogy would be if I was a beneficiary in a trust and you were the trustee and I had a dog that I loved very much who was sick and needed ten thousand dollars for surgery which the board had approved. We have a phone call and I say ‘I’m ready for that money, my dog is coughing blood now’ and you say ‘I need you to do me a favour though’ followed by a suggestion that you think that lebron is better than Kobe with further instructions to speak to your friend.

Your friend tells me that I need to start wearing a t shirt that reads ‘Lebron is better than Kobe’ which I know had been thoroughly debunked. Then the next day I hear that you put a pause on the transfer for unknown reasons then your friend comes to me and says that the funds will be released once I wear the t shirt.

So I order the t shirt and wait for it to arrive. Before it arrives I hear that you are being investigated for making the transfer conditioned on me wearing a false t shirt thus betraying your fiduciary duties to me. The next day the funds are released and my dog is saved. The t shirt arrives and I throw it in the bin where it belongs.

But my dog will need surgery again next year and I’ll need you to sign off on it again so when a reporter asks if I felt pressured I tell them no.

Regardless of what we say, the actions speak for themselves. You had a fiduciary duty to act in my best interest but abused it to try and get what you wanted. What we say or how we felt about that phone call doesn’t change the fact that:

1) you paused the transfer of funds
2) I was pressured by your friend to wear the t shirt
3) you can’t explain why pausing the transfer was in my best interest

[oxmixmudd]

It's not all that hard to follow Sparko ... and it's a pretty good analogy of what went down.

[oxmixmudd]

No, that's not what I said. What I actually said is that since withholding aid is not a crime in and of itself, nor does it suggest a crime, then there's literally nothing to investigate.

Actually - it was illegal for Trump to hold that aid. That is why people at the OMB resigned over the handling of the matter. They were being asked to break the law.

https://www.justsecurity.org/67489/t...d-was-illegal/

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, I got lost in that "analogy".

[Mountain Man]

Yeah, I got lost in that "analogy".

I laughed at the "dog coughing up blood" part. It just made the whole analogy even more surreal.

[JimL]

No, that's not what I said. What I actually said is that since withholding aid is not a crime in and of itself, nor does it suggest a crime, then there's literally nothing to investigate. It'd be like the cops seeing you withdraw $5000 from the bank and then using that as a basis to launch an investigation where your friends and family are forced to testify to see if you're planning to do anything illegal with the money.

Actually withholding the Congressionally appropriated taxpayer military aid, is a crime, in and of itself!

[JimL]

Actually - it was illegal for Trump to hold that aid. That is why people at the OMB resigned over the handling of the matter. They were being asked to break the law.

https://www.justsecurity.org/67489/t...d-was-illegal/

Oops, sorry, you beat me to it. And of course the two that resigned over it have not testified as of yet.

[Mountain Man]

Actually - it was illegal for Trump to hold that aid. That is why people at the OMB resigned over the handling of the matter. They were being asked to break the law.

https://www.justsecurity.org/67489/t...d-was-illegal/

That's one opinion. There are others.

http://dailytorch.com/2019/11/the-pr...or-rescission/

[Cow Poke]

I laughed at the "dog coughing up blood" part. It just made the whole analogy even more surreal.

It was entertaining.

[oxmixmudd]

That's one opinion. There are others.

http://dailytorch.com/2019/11/the-pr...or-rescission/

I'll go with the two people that resigned. People don't resign their jobs because on the off chance is wasn't ok. They resign because they are convinced the thing was flat out wrong/illegal and they have a conscience.

[Mountain Man]

Actually withholding the Congressionally appropriated taxpayer military aid, is a crime, in and of itself!

If the president is considering deferal or recension but has not yet made a decision, then he can temporarily put the distribution of funds on hold without informing Congress provided the hold does not extend past the end of the fiscal year, which in this case it didn't.

http://dailytorch.com/2019/11/the-pr...or-rescission/

[oxmixmudd]

I laughed at the "dog coughing up blood" part. It just made the whole analogy even more surreal.

I thought about the blood spilt by the soldiers in Ukraine trying to hold back the Russians while our president played games with the money that might have kept them alive.

[whag]

That's one opinion. There are others.

http://dailytorch.com/2019/11/the-pr...or-rescission/

Funny that for months Trump avoided answering whether he withheld already approved funds and why he would do that withholding. I wonder why he’d do that if it’s totally normal. Obviously he avoided the question to avoid appearance of QPQ.