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Thread: List of Trump's crimes?

  1. #761
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Trump put a hold on aid to the ukraine did he not?
    Something which nobody in the Ukrainian government was aware of, which Trump never referenced in his phone call with Zelensky, and which was eventually released without Ukraine ever announcing or even agreeing to undertake any investigations.

    So, yeah...
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #762
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermelon View Post
    The implication is that Trump was behind Sonderlands actions. Trump sent him to Ukraine. Trump withheld the aid. Sonderland was in daily communication with Trump and Trump is the one who benefits from it.

    That’s the word on the street.
    It doesn't matter what you think the "implications" might be when Sondland testified under oath that he was never given any specific direction from the President, that he was acting on his own presumption, and that when he questioned the President directly was told with what he described as crystal clarity that there was to be no quid pro quo.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  3. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  4. #763
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    You mind detailing what the horrible thing I said to you was co? In this exchange, starting with my longer reply to rogue, the only thing said was that we need to agree there is content in the call transcript that is a possible quid pro quo. Is that really such a harsh thing to say?
    I'll just chalk it up to one of your less charitable moments, and let it go.
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  5. #764
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Something which nobody in the Ukrainian government was aware of, which Trump never referenced in his phone call with Zelensky, and which was eventually released without Ukraine ever announcing or even agreeing to undertake any investigations.

    So, yeah...
    That simply isnt true mm. They were aware of the hold and asked about it. Where do you get off saying they were not aware of the hold? That they knew was reported from multiple sources.

    Just today is a report in the NYT they knew as early as July

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/w...itary-aid.html
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  6. #765
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That simply isnt true mm. They were aware of the hold and asked about it. Where do you get off saying they were not aware of the hold? That they knew was reported from multiple sources.

    Just today is a report in the NYT they knew as early as July

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/w...itary-aid.html
    If they knew then it was because they figured it out on their own and not because Trump instructed anybody to tell them. Multiple witnesses testified that they were never told that release of the aid was tied to the investigations, and Sondland testified that Trump told him explicitly that he didn't want any reciprocation from Ukraine.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  8. #766
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That is quite the bit of excuse making there seanD.
    No one still has a clear explanation why the 2016 polls were so wrong. One explanation I read was that voters were just changing their minds. I think public stigma of Trump support is as good an explanation as any.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  9. #767
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    If they knew then it was because they figured it out on their own and not because Trump instructed anybody to tell them. Multiple witnesses testified that they were never told that release of the aid was tied to the investigations, and Sondland testified that Trump told him explicitly that he didn't want any reciprocation from Ukraine.
    Sondland also said that there was a quid pro quo and that everyone was in on it. I guess they all just conspired to do this together on their own and that Trump is just a moron who has no idea what criminal activity his underlings have been up to for so long. Btw, you wouldn't be in need of a bridge, would you, MM?

  10. #768
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Sondland also said that there was a quid pro quo and that everyone was in on it.
    No, he said he presumed it, but when he spoke with the President directly, Trump set him straight.

    [Sondland] said he did not know why the aid was delayed but "presumed" it was contingent on a public statement...

    [...]

    On September 9, Bill Taylor, the top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, sent a message to Sondland questioning whether the U.S. was withholding aid to get Ukraine to open investigations. Sondland was taken aback by the text, and called Mr. Trump to ask him what he wanted from Zelensky.

    "I asked him one open-ended question: What do you want from Ukraine? And as I recall, he was in a very bad mood. It was a very quick conversation. He said: I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. I want Zelensky to do the right thing," Sondland testified.

    "And I said: What does that mean? And he said: I want him to do what he ran on. And that was the end of the conversation. I wouldn't say he hung up me, but it was almost like he hung up on me," Sondland continued. Sondland replied to Taylor's text several hours later, relaying the president's assertion that there was "no quid pro quo."

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gordon-...es-2019-11-05/
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #769
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    No one still has a clear explanation why the 2016 polls were so wrong.
    They weren't "so wrong." Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million, just about what was expected. Russia did target those few states that Manafort targeted for them though, which Trump then barely won which gave him the electoral win.

    One explanation I read was that voters were just changing their minds.
    Yep, misinformation can swing enough people to do the trick, and it seems the collusion with Russia worked.

    I think public stigma of Trump support is as good an explanation as any.

  12. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    No, he said he presumed it, but when he spoke with the President directly, Trump set him straight.

    [Sondland] said he did not know why the aid was delayed but "presumed" it was contingent on a public statement...

    [...]

    On September 9, Bill Taylor, the top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, sent a message to Sondland questioning whether the U.S. was withholding aid to get Ukraine to open investigations. Sondland was taken aback by the text, and called Mr. Trump to ask him what he wanted from Zelensky.

    "I asked him one open-ended question: What do you want from Ukraine? And as I recall, he was in a very bad mood. It was a very quick conversation. He said: I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. I want Zelensky to do the right thing," Sondland testified.

    "And I said: What does that mean? And he said: I want him to do what he ran on. And that was the end of the conversation. I wouldn't say he hung up me, but it was almost like he hung up on me," Sondland continued. Sondland replied to Taylor's text several hours later, relaying the president's assertion that there was "no quid pro quo."

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gordon-...es-2019-11-05/
    Yes, and if you'd have been paying attention, Trump, unprompted, said "I want nothing, I want no quid pro quo," just after realizing that the whistle had been blown on his scheme. There is also no record of such a call, so no reason to believe the contradiction concerning Sondlands other testimony that "Yes, there was a quid pro quo, and everyone was in on it. Anyway, about that bridge?

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