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Thread: List of Trump's crimes?

  1. #891
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    She is telling what she witnessed and saw.
    Or what she presumed she was seeing.

    As for the "tightrope", you're still stuck with needing to explain why Zelensky is supposedly so afraid of Trump that he's willing to lie about not feeling pressured, but not so afraid that he would immediately agree to begin an investigation into Biden's Dirty Deal.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #892
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The two facts against are that Sondland admitted that he was acting on his own presumption, and that when he spoke to the President directly was emphatically told there was to be no quid pro quo.
    Do you think it’s important to know why or how Sonderland made that presumption?

    Im curious to know what made you so certain Schiff was lying about having no contact with the whistle blower.

  3. #893
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Or what she presumed she was seeing.

    As for the "tightrope", you're still stuck with needing to explain why Zelensky is supposedly so afraid of Trump that he's willing to lie about not feeling pressured, but not so afraid that he would immediately agree to begin an investigation into Biden's Dirty Deal.
    The unfortunate thing for you here (if we want to go by legal principles) is that the vulnerable situation of Ukraine and their dependence on the US means it will be claimed to be a relationship under undue influence. I know you hate this but the burden of proof falls on you to prove that Zelenskys responses are not the result of undue influence before you can request an answer for your question.

    What evidence has you convinced that Bidens deal was dirty anyway?

  4. #894
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermelon View Post
    The unfortunate thing for you here (if we want to go by legal principles) is that the vulnerable situation of Ukraine and their dependence on the US means it will be claimed to be a relationship under undue influence. I know you hate this but the burden of proof falls on you to prove that Zelenskys responses are not the result of undue influence before you can request an answer for your question.

    What evidence has you convinced that Bidens deal was dirty anyway?
    The counterargument is that if Ukraine was so vulnerable, and Zelensky so scared of Trump, then why didn't he immediately agree to begin an investigation in order to get the military aide flowing as quickly as possible?

    As for what Joe Biden was up to, John Solomon has done the most in-depth reporting on this. What we do know is that Burisma was being actively and aggressively investigated when Hunter Biden and other board members contacted Obama's State Department and asked them to get the prosecutor off their back, and then Joe Biden shows up and essentially says, "If you want this money then you'll leave my boy alone."

    https://johnsolomonreports.com/hunte...ns-memos-show/
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #895
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    They knew in August, Tea, long before Trumps call to Zelensky.
    Nope.
    They already knew, so didn't have to ask. And how would you know if they asked or not anyway?
    Did not.
    Would be all over the news by now but since the Ukrainian government is denying knowledge I think it's sufficient proof.
    I gotta tell ya Tea, that's a real laugher coming from a Trumpster.
    Not sure I care what someone who supports the overthrow of the US government finds humorous.
    Begs to differ about what?
    Keep up.
    OMB has been refuting that Dem canard. Turns out Trump isn't big on sending our tax dollars to foreign governments for no good reason.

  6. #896
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Nope.
    Yep. Documents, and testimony by DoD official Laura Cooper. They knew in Early August and the aid wasn't released until Sept. 11th just after the whistleblower complaint.

    Did not.
    Did too. Look it up.

    Would be all over the news by now but since the Ukrainian government is denying knowledge I think it's sufficient proof.
    No, not necessarily, because the facts are in and it was held up, the Ukrainians knew it was held up, and it was not all over the news.
    Not sure I care what someone who supports the overthrow of the US government finds humorous.
    Supporting the Impeachment of a president for trampling the Constitution is not supporting the overthow of the U.S. government, but supporting a president who tramples the Constitution and aids our adversary over our allies is supporting the overthrow of the U.S. government whether you're aware you're doing it or not.

    Keep up.
    OMB has been refuting that Dem canard. Turns out Trump isn't big on sending our tax dollars to foreign governments for no good reason.
    Defending an ally, a fledgling democracy, who wants to join NATO, from the agression of a common adversary is a very good reason to spend our tax dollars.

  7. #897
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The counterargument is that if Ukraine was so vulnerable, and Zelensky so scared of Trump, then why didn't he immediately agree to begin an investigation in order to get the military aide flowing as quickly as possible?

    As for what Joe Biden was up to, John Solomon has done the most in-depth reporting on this. What we do know is that Burisma was being actively and aggressively investigated when Hunter Biden and other board members contacted Obama's State Department and asked them to get the prosecutor off their back, and then Joe Biden shows up and essentially says, "If you want this money then you'll leave my boy alone."

    https://johnsolomonreports.com/hunte...ns-memos-show/
    And this evidence is sufficient for you? Where’s the direct evidence for Hunter requesting removal of prosecutor or that Joe did what he did to protect Hunter? Surely you’re not making presumptions here?

  8. #898
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermelon View Post
    And this evidence is sufficient for you? Where’s the direct evidence for Hunter requesting removal of prosecutor or that Joe did what he did to protect Hunter? Surely you’re not making presumptions here?
    Did you not read the article?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #899
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    First of all it is not a crime to communicate ones president and boss's message to Ukraine when that message has to do with government policy.
    So you are saying Obama was the one who was blackmailing the Ukraine to stop them from investigating Hunter Biden?



    Second, you know as well as I do that a President asking another government to investigate an American citizen is illegal.
    Is it? Why? Where does it say that in the constitution? Show me.

    Third, asking a foreign government to interfere with a U.S. election is illegal, an abuse of power, a high crime and misdemeaner.
    He didn't to that. They haven't even chosen a candidate yet. The only person who asked a foreign national to interfere with an election and investigate a US citizen was Hillary when she PAID Steele, a British citizen, to investigate Trump and write a phony report that she then used to try to influence the investigation.


    Fourth, the withholding of appropriated military aid to an ally trying to repel the agression of a common adversary, and in fact aids that adversary, is not only a crime, it's immoral, unpatriotic, risk of national security, and in my opinion, treason. Fifth, the extraordinary lengths to which Trump went to cover-up the conspiracy, his continued obstruction of congress, his withholding of documents, and blocking of witness testimony are all crimes that fit the category as set forth in the Constitution.
    Treason is an act against your own country. The US routinely puts conditions on foreign aid. It happens all the time.

  10. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  11. #900
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So you are saying Obama was the one who was blackmailing the Ukraine to stop them from investigating Hunter Biden?


    Is it? Why? Where does it say that in the constitution? Show me.

    He didn't to that. They haven't even chosen a candidate yet. The only person who asked a foreign national to interfere with an election and investigate a US citizen was Hillary when she PAID Steele, a British citizen, to investigate Trump and write a phony report that she then used to try to influence the investigation.




    Treason is an act against your own country. The US routinely puts conditions on foreign aid. It happens all the time.
    It is no wonder no-one will answer this simple question:

    Do you acknowledge there is a difference between quid pro quo when the exchange is in the US national interests and when the only beneficiary is the individual engaged in the quid pro quo?

    If you answer that question yes, then the error present in your comment:

    The US routinely puts conditions on foreign aid. It happens all the time.

    Is instantly obvious.

    The issue here is not 'quid pro quo' on behalf of the national interests of the US.

    The issue here is Trump engaging in 'quid pro quo' for his own personal gain, and not only that, AGAINST THE NATIONAL INTERESTS OF THE US.

    To not argue with an overt consciousness of the difference is beneath you Sparko, not to mention misleading.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  12. Amen JimL amen'd this post.

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