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Thread: The Eternal Functional Subordination of the Son

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    tWebber
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    The Eternal Functional Subordination of the Son

    The Eternal Functional Subordination of the Son is the teaching that Jesus Christ has always been in submission to God the Father throughout all eternity. This view does not teach that Jesus is a lesser God. This view holds that Jesus is God just like the Father and the Holy Spirit are God. Jesus is co-equal in essence as the Father and the Holy Spirit. This view makes the distinction between someone's essence and someone's role. Advocates of this view say that Jesus is equal in essence with the Father, but He has the role of submitting to the Father and He has been doing this through all eternity. They say that Jesus's submission to the Father for all of eternity does not imply that He is less than God.

    Opponents of this view say the following:
    Jesus's submission to the Father mentioned in the Gospels have to do with the Incarnation only. Jesus's submission to the Father only pertains to His humanity, not to His divinity.
    If Jesus's submission to the Father is eternal, then this would jeopardize His essence. One's role is grounded in one's essence.
    If Jesus's submission to the Father is eternal, then this would imply that there are different degrees of authority within the Godhead and that there are different degrees of being divine.
    If Jesus's submission to the Father is eternal, then this would imply that the divine will is divided.

    What do you think about this? Does the submission of Jesus to the Father pertain only to His humanity or pertain to both His humanity and divinity?
    Last edited by Hornet; 11-13-2019 at 05:22 PM.

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    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Was this ever even an issue before patriarchalists wanted a way to argue against egalitarians on the basis of relationships in the godhead?
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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    tWebber
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    Was this even an issue before egalitarians wanted to rule out 'equal but subordinate'?
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  4. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Participants in the complementarianism debate make far too much of this. Appealing to the Trinity just to make an analogy doesn't seem like a strong argument for two reasons - one, it's just an analogy in the first place, and two, the Bible doesn't go into a whole lot of detail about how the Trinity interacts, so it just seems speculative.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    Was this ever even an issue before patriarchalists wanted a way to argue against egalitarians on the basis of relationships in the godhead?
    I don't know if it was an issue before then.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Was this even an issue before egalitarians wanted to rule out 'equal but subordinate'?
    I don't know if it was an issue before then.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Participants in the complementarianism debate make far too much of this. Appealing to the Trinity just to make an analogy doesn't seem like a strong argument for two reasons - one, it's just an analogy in the first place, and two, the Bible doesn't go into a whole lot of detail about how the Trinity interacts, so it just seems speculative.
    There is already a lot of passages in the Bible that discusses the role of husbands and wives. There is no need to appeal to the Trinity in order to prove what role husbands and wives should have.

    What do you think of 1 Corinthians 11:3 which says, "But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ." Does "God is the head of Christ" mean that God the Father has authority over Christ? If so, is it referring to Christ with respect to His humanity, with respect to His divinity, or with respect to both.
    Last edited by Hornet; 11-14-2019 at 10:35 AM.

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    1 Corinthians 15:

    For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be eliminated is death. 27 For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. 17 But when it says “everything” has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him. 28 And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all.
    The plan for eternity future is eternal subordination.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    1 Corinthians 15:



    The plan for eternity future is eternal subordination.
    If Jesus has been in subjection to the Father for all of eternity, would this imply that Jesus possesses a divine attribute in a lesser degree compared with the Father?

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    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    If Jesus has been in subjection to the Father for all of eternity, would this imply that Jesus possesses a divine attribute in a lesser degree compared with the Father?
    Rather than subordination, might difference in function, or maybe in relation, be a more promising topic to explore ? The Son is “from” the Father, as is the Spirit; and the Father is from no source at all. That need not imply subordination, but rather a difference in relation “within” God.

    As for the 1 Cor.15 passage, I think that has more to do with the exercise of Divine Kingship over creatures, and so, with the “functions” of the Divine Persons toward creatures, than with ontological subordination “within” God. The Sonship of Christ is after all an aspect of His Davidic Kingship - even if it is not exhausted by that. The authority of the Son of Man in Daniel 7 is to last forever and to be exercised over all nations, peoples, tribes and tongues - compare that of the Lamb in Rev. 5.
    Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 11-22-2019 at 10:21 PM.

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