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Thread: Trump issues at least two pardons to service members

  1. #101
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It is sad you are willing to embrace that concept
    I have not said that, you sanctimonious, dishonest hack. Only a fool thinks that a gentleman's agreement calling itself international 'law', about how to wage total war, has anything to do with morality except occasionally and accidentally.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by paying the price with our souls. Would you rather be dead or let the world and your loved ones be consumed with darkness and lose all freedoms? And yes, if it came to using chemical weapons or losing a war with Communists or Jihadists, especially if they are using them, I would have no problem. When the Germans started using Mustard gas the Allies did too, rather than lose the war. I don't think we lost our souls then. Whatever that means... And Charles, I am sticking by my principles, I think there are certain freedoms worth fighting for.
    Yes, you are sticking by your principles of pointing to a God who commanded people to kill children. And you are sticking to the principle that if others don't follow principles, then you don't do either. That is a very low standard and sticking to that is nothing to be proud of.

    While I could fear that personally I would do all kinds of wrongs when pushed to extremes that in no way makes it right. And in no way makes it anything to excuse beforehand or promote as being good. I think it is far more worthy to die than to compromise my integrity killing many people including very many innocent people using chemical weapons. I would rather have my loved ones living without me, than having my children living with a father who had no problem killing other children, using chemical weapons, giving up everything he believed in, everything he taught them to stay alive. I have values that are worth living and dying for. Whether I would have the power when pushed to the extremes makes no difference to my view on what is right and wrong.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  3. #103
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    No, they're a gentleman's agreement from another era of fighting that only occasionally intersects with what is moral.
    It used to be considered "ungentlemanly" to kill officers on the field of battle because it was feared that the common fighting men would cause undue violence if not restrained by a superior.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #104
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It used to be considered "ungentlemanly" to kill officers on the field of battle because it was feared that the common fighting men would cause undue violence if not restrained by a superior.
    A quote I once saw hanging up in a base command post:

    “Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching.” - US army officer's guide 1894

    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  5. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  6. #105
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Yes, you are sticking by your principles of pointing to a God who commanded people to kill children. And you are sticking to the principle that if others don't follow principles, then you don't do either. That is a very low standard and sticking to that is nothing to be proud of.
    Charles, that is just daft! The point about God's commands is that at times we will run into men who so wicked that they need to be destroyed. The means are immaterial. It doesn't matter much to the dead if they were killed by gas or a daisy cutter (BLU-82)....

    While I could fear that personally I would do all kinds of wrongs when pushed to extremes that in no way makes it right. And in no way makes it anything to excuse beforehand or promote as being good. I think it is far more worthy to die than to compromise my integrity killing many people including very many innocent people using chemical weapons. I would rather have my loved ones living without me, than having my children living with a father who had no problem killing other children, using chemical weapons, giving up everything he believed in, everything he taught them to stay alive. I have values that are worth living and dying for. Whether I would have the power when pushed to the extremes makes no difference to my view on what is right and wrong.
    I mean really Charles are you suggesting that if China or Russia started nuking the US that we should not respond with nukes? You can now resume polishing your halo...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by paying the price with our souls. Would you rather be dead or let the world and your loved ones be consumed with darkness and lose all freedoms? And yes, if it came to using chemical weapons or losing a war with Communists or Jihadists, especially if they are using them, I would have no problem. When the Germans started using Mustard gas the Allies did too, rather than lose the war. I don't think we lost our souls then. Whatever that means... And Charles, I am sticking by my principles, I think there are certain freedoms worth fighting for.
    The evil of chemical weapons is nowhere near the popular stigma. But watch out where you're going...

    Nuking Japan was completely unnecessary. The real reason they surrendered was because USSR was about to invade them. That the USSR would attack Japan was completely predictable, and the probability that Japan would surrender to prevent that was considerable.

    All the nonsense about 'nuking being justified to save millions of our young soldiers' lives'. Lies, utter lies, the USSR would have taken down Japan by itself if it had to.

    But, you see, they wanted an actual test of the new weapons on actual targets. That is sheer evil. You don't have to defend that, and you shouldn't.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  8. #107
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It used to be considered "ungentlemanly" to kill officers on the field of battle because it was feared that the common fighting men would cause undue violence if not restrained by a superior.
    It may also go back to the concept of ransoming captives.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  9. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  10. #108
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Charles, that is just daft! The point about God's commands is that at times we will run into men who so wicked that they need to be destroyed. The means are immaterial. It doesn't matter much to the dead if they were killed by gas or a daisy cutter (BLU-82)....
    You pointed to it yourself yesterday to defend your harsh lines so stand by the fact that you think your God justifies the killing of children. And of course the means are not immaterial. And the number of dead people, including the innocent ones, among them the children, will of course be much larger if you use chemical weapons or whatever evils you might suggest. I have a hard time imagining children being so wicked that they "need to be destroyed". I find it impossible and simply inhuman. Your statement "It doesn't matter much to the dead if they were killed by gas or a daisy cutter (BLU-82)...." is one i could imagine your enemies and those you would protect us against would use to justify their evils as well. Funny how you are so concerned in ethichal discussion on how atheism can (in your understanding) provide no reason to act in certain ways or respect certain values and reasons. And then, now, discussion war you fall to the lowest of the lowest and point to the killing of children, no problem with chemincal weapons and the like. You are promoting the ideas that I have heard many apologetics claim follow from atheism.

    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    I mean really Charles are you suggesting that if China or Russia started nuking the US that we should not respond with nukes? You can now resume polishing your halo...
    Talking about right or wrong is not "polishing your halo". I explicitly said I might end up doing what was wrong if pushed to extremes. That would not make it right, though.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  11. #109
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    The evil of chemical weapons is nowhere near the popular stigma. But watch out where you're going...

    Nuking Japan was completely unnecessary. The real reason they surrendered was because USSR was about to invade them. That the USSR would attack Japan was completely predictable, and the probability that Japan would surrender to prevent that was considerable.

    All the nonsense about 'nuking being justified to save millions of our young soldiers' lives'. Lies, utter lies, the USSR would have taken down Japan by itself if it had to.

    But, you see, they wanted an actual test of the new weapons on actual targets. That is sheer evil. You don't have to defend that, and you shouldn't.
    Sorry Demi, that is nonsense. Russia was not yet in a position to attack Japan, it didn't even have real navy. Second it did save America lives.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  12. #110
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Nuking Japan was completely unnecessary.
    The scary thing is, you can find videos of those who did it who will gladly tell how they did it, what it looked like, "I pressed the button" and other statements along those lines. They literally burned thousands and thousands of people, were the reason that children saw their parents, brothers and sisters burn in front of their eyes, leaving them to die slowly or live in pain for the rest of their lives and they don't seem to have any second thoughts about it at all. Scary.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

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