Trump dismisses Mike Pence aide as 'Never Trumper'

[Mountain Man]

If the testimony is unfavorable, smear the person testifying.

Stating facts as admitted by the witness himself is now considered a "smear"?

[One Bad Pig]

Stating facts as admitted by the witness himself is now considered a "smear"?

I suspect he's referring to "Frankly, this guy sounds like a serious security risk. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that."

Since I've handled classified information, I agree with your assessment.

[Mountain Man]

I suspect he's referring to "Frankly, this guy sounds like a serious security risk. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that."

Since I've handled classified information, I agree with your assessment.

That wasn't intended as a "smear" at any rate. It was simply my gut reaction to a guy who admitted to cavalierly sharing information about a privileged phone conversation between one of his colleagues and the president. That he can't remember who he talked to or what he told them is concerning. The fact that Sondland was having this conversation over a cell phone while sitting in a public restaurant in the Ukraine and that the conversation was apparently loud enough that those nearby could hear it is another matter.

[Roy]

So If I hear a conversation, and someone wants to know the content of the conversation I heard, then I am an EYEWITNESS as to what the content of the conversation was.

[nitpick]
No, you're an earwitness.
[/nitpick]

[Roy]

That wasn't intended as a "smear" at any rate. It was simply my gut reaction to a guy who admitted to cavalierly sharing information about a privileged phone conversation between one of his colleagues and the president. That he can't remember who he talked to or what he told them is concerning. The fact that Sondland was having this conversation over a cell phone while sitting in a public restaurant in the Ukraine and that the conversation was apparently loud enough that those nearby could hear it is another matter.

It's not another matter, since it indicates the conversation either wasn't privileged, or the conversers were acting even more cavalierly.

I note that while you're criticising the aide for sharing details of a conversation, while not criticising those engaged in conversation for having it in public.

[Roy]

I suspect he's referring to "Frankly, this guy sounds like a serious security risk. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that."

Since I've handled classified information, I agree with your assessment.

Trump/Sondland aren't exactly coming off cleanly here either.

[Mountain Man]

It's not another matter, since it indicates the conversation either wasn't privileged, or the conversers were acting even more cavalierly.

I note that while you're criticising the aide for sharing details of an overheard conversation, while not criticising those engaged in conversation for allowing it to be overheard.

You have no idea what you're talking about. A conversation with the president about foreign policy is privileged by default and certainly should not be had in public. Sondland clearly showed poor judgment.

You also seem to be suggesting that Trump is somehow to blame, but there is nothing to suggest that Trump was aware of the circumstances in which Sondland took the call.

[One Bad Pig]

Trump/Sondland aren't exactly coming off cleanly here either.

Agreed.

[Roy]

It's not another matter, since it indicates the conversation either wasn't privileged, or the conversers were acting even more cavalierly.

I note that while you're criticising the aide for sharing details of an overheard conversation, while not criticising those engaged in conversation for allowing it to be overheard.

You have no idea what you're talking about. A conversation with the president about foreign policy is privileged by default and certainly should not be had in public. Sondland clearly showed poor judgment.

So you're calling me ignorant and saying I don't know what I'm talking about while agreeing with me! You truly are an idiot.

You also seem to be suggesting that Trump is somehow to blame, but there is nothing to suggest that Trump was aware of the circumstances in which Sondland took the call.

If Trump really was engaging in privileged conversation then he certainly was to blame for not first confirming that he couldn't be overheard.

[Mountain Man]

So you're calling me ignorant and saying I don't know what I'm talking about while agreeing with me! You truly are an idiot.

I didn't agree with you. You suggested that the conversation may not have been privileged. I corrected your misunderstanding by pointing out that such conversations are always privileged.

If Trump really was engaging in privileged conversation then he certainly was to blame for not first confirming that he couldn't be overheard.

We have no idea what Trump did or didn't confirm, or what Sondland might have told him.

[Roy]

I didn't agree with you. You suggested that the conversation may not have been privileged.

Poppycock. (A or B) -/-> p(A) > 0. Go take a course in logic.

We have no idea what Trump did or didn't confirm, or what Sondland might have told him.

So in your efforts to absolve Trump of any possible blame in holding a supposedly privileged conversation with some-one in a public restaurant, you're not going to rule out the possibility that Trump asked Sondland whether the call was secure and Sondland, in a public restaurant where others were not only listening but apparently taking notes, said that it was.

You're bending so far backwards your spine could power a watch.

[Mountain Man]

Poppycock. (A or B) -/-> p(A) > 0. Go take a course in logic. So in your efforts to absolve Trump of any possible blame in holding a supposedly privileged conversation with some-one in a public restaurant, you're not going to rule out the possibility that Trump asked Sondland whether the call was secure and Sondland, in a public restaurant where others were not only listening but apparently taking notes, said that it was.

You're bending so far backwards your spine could power a watch.

We have no idea what Trump did or didn't confirm, or what Sondland might have told him.

[Roy]

We have no idea what Trump did or didn't confirm, or what Sondland might have told him.

Wrong. You might have no idea that Trump didn't confirm whether Sondland was in a restaurant or that Sondland might have told Trump that he was in a lead-lined vat of rancid yoghurt. But your lack of ideas doesn't apply to the rest of us.

[Mountain Man]

Wrong. You might have no idea that Trump didn't confirm whether Sondland was in a restaurant or that Sondland might have told Trump that he was in a lead-lined vat of rancid yoghurt. But your lack of ideas doesn't apply to the rest of us.

Oh, so you know what Trump did or didn't confirm, and what Sondland told him?

[Roy]

Oh, so you know what Trump did or didn't confirm, and what Sondland told him?

If you even get around to taking a course in basic logic, pay special attention to the fallacy of false dilemma (aka excluded middle).