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Thread: Trump dismisses Mike Pence aide as 'Never Trumper'

  1. #11
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    On that you would be wrong.
    To date we have had all three of Schiff's star witnesses admit that they have no first hand knowledge of anything, that all they are doing is repeating gossip that they heard from others. While you may be willing to discard over 200 years of jurisprudence and turn our entire legal system on its head just to get Trump, I'll be willing to bet you are in a decided minority.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    To date we have had all three of Schiff's star witnesses admit that they have no first hand knowledge of anything, that all they are doing is repeating gossip that they heard from others. While you may be willing to discard over 200 years of jurisprudence and turn our entire legal system on its head just to get Trump, I'll be willing to bet you are in a decided minority.
    This just isn't true rogue, it is spin. For example, the testimony of David Holmes yesterday. This isn't Gossip. He overheard a phone conversation from Trump where he specifically asked about the investigations, and he heard Sondland's summary of what Trump cared about with Ukraine - the investigations. Now Sondland will I am sure be asked about why that was his summary of Trump's interest in Ukraine. But this all goes to why Trump withheld the aid from Ukraine. If he did it because he wanted dirt on Biden, it was wrong, illegal. If there is hard evidence there was some other reason, then it was not clearly wrong or illegal. And the evidence for WHY he did it is found in these conversations that are being discussed.

    How else do you determine Motive rogue except from the first hand witnesses of CONVERSATIONS about the topic? You can infer motive from inconsistencies in action, but it is their own words that coupled with the actions take the conclusion of motive to 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

    The GOP strategy of calling all overheard conversations hearsay is a farce. Overheard conversations are in fact eyewitness testimony for certain sorts of information. And in this case, the determination of motive would be one of those cases, and that is critical to determining whether or not what Trump did was illegal.

    hearsay: information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

    So If I hear a conversation, and someone wants to know the content of the conversation I heard, then I am an EYEWITNESS as to what the content of the conversation was.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-19-2019 at 06:58 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

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  4. #13
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    This just isn't true rogue, it is spin. For example, the testimony of David Holmes yesterday. This isn't Gossip. He overheard a phone conversation from Trump where he specifically asked about the investigations, and he heard Sondland's summary of what Trump cared about with Ukraine - the investigations.
    I posted this in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Some interesting new details about David Holmes, one of the people at the Ukrainian restaurant who supposedly overheard Sondland talking with Trump...

    He admits they were drinking at the time; that he didn't hear the entire phonecall; that while he has detailed notes about other portions of the call and emailed the details to a colleague, he has no record of direct quotes from President Trump or about the relevant portion of the call where Trump supposedly showed an undue interest in having Biden investigated; and he is strongly biased against President Trump.

    Furthermore, he says that he doesn't remember who he spoke with about the call or what he told them, but he did admit to sharing some details with six of his friends while on vacation.

    Frankly, this guy sounds like a serious security risk. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I posted this in another thread:
    If the testimony is unfavorable, smear the person testifying.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    If the testimony is unfavorable, smear the person testifying hail it as irrefutable truth no matter how dubious the source or evidence may be.
    FIFY n/c

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  9. #16
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    If the testimony is unfavorable, smear the person testifying.
    Stating facts as admitted by the witness himself is now considered a "smear"?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  11. #17
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Stating facts as admitted by the witness himself is now considered a "smear"?
    I suspect he's referring to "Frankly, this guy sounds like a serious security risk. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that."

    Since I've handled classified information, I agree with your assessment.
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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I suspect he's referring to "Frankly, this guy sounds like a serious security risk. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that."

    Since I've handled classified information, I agree with your assessment.
    That wasn't intended as a "smear" at any rate. It was simply my gut reaction to a guy who admitted to cavalierly sharing information about a privileged phone conversation between one of his colleagues and the president. That he can't remember who he talked to or what he told them is concerning. The fact that Sondland was having this conversation over a cell phone while sitting in a public restaurant in the Ukraine and that the conversation was apparently loud enough that those nearby could hear it is another matter.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  14. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  15. #19
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    So If I hear a conversation, and someone wants to know the content of the conversation I heard, then I am an EYEWITNESS as to what the content of the conversation was.
    [nitpick]
    No, you're an earwitness.
    [/nitpick]
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

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  17. #20
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That wasn't intended as a "smear" at any rate. It was simply my gut reaction to a guy who admitted to cavalierly sharing information about a privileged phone conversation between one of his colleagues and the president. That he can't remember who he talked to or what he told them is concerning. The fact that Sondland was having this conversation over a cell phone while sitting in a public restaurant in the Ukraine and that the conversation was apparently loud enough that those nearby could hear it is another matter.
    It's not another matter, since it indicates the conversation either wasn't privileged, or the conversers were acting even more cavalierly.

    I note that while you're criticising the aide for sharing details of a conversation, while not criticising those engaged in conversation for having it in public.
    Last edited by Roy; 11-19-2019 at 09:23 AM.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

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