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Thread: Men can get pregnant too...

  1. #61
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    I read an interesting account on another forum (one dealing with legal issues) this morning. I don't know if it's actually true but:

    A woman was legally married to another woman. They broke up but before the divorce was finalized, she got pregnant. Because she was still legally married at the time of conception, the legal presumption in that state is that the spouse is the father until proven otherwise. Onlookers agreed that this was a good thing because it would be discriminatory to rule out the possibility based on her being a woman.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  2. #62
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Apparently after living with my brother's cat for over a month, Jake thinks he is a cat too.

    I am sending him to a re-education camp, where they will teach him to be a dog again.
    It must be quite a shock to come home and find out that, instead of being the master, you are now staff.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  3. Amen mossrose, Teallaura, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  4. #63
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    It must be quite a shock to come home and find out that, instead of being the master, you are now staff.
    never got that bad. Just found him playing with a ball like a cat does. I nipped it in the bud. He is currently being water boarded to learn how to be a dog again.

  5. #64
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Appearances of propriety must be maintained.
    I fully agree...



  6. #65
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I read an interesting account on another forum (one dealing with legal issues) this morning. I don't know if it's actually true but:

    A woman was legally married to another woman. They broke up but before the divorce was finalized, she got pregnant. Because she was still legally married at the time of conception, the legal presumption in that state is that the spouse is the father until proven otherwise. Onlookers agreed that this was a good thing because it would be discriminatory to rule out the possibility based on her being a woman.
    Because stupidity must be preserved...


  7. #66
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Because stupidity must be preserved...

    This is what happens when you go searching for silliness.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  8. #67
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I read an interesting account on another forum (one dealing with legal issues) this morning. I don't know if it's actually true but:

    A woman was legally married to another woman. They broke up but before the divorce was finalized, she got pregnant. Because she was still legally married at the time of conception, the legal presumption in that state is that the spouse is the father until proven otherwise. Onlookers agreed that this was a good thing because it would be discriminatory to rule out the possibility based on her being a woman.
    especially if 'she' is a 'female' athlete ...
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  9. #68
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    When it comes to people that are physically not fully male or female, people that by nature of what they were born as are not really one or the other sex, we can agree.
    Okay.

    For people that are fully male or fully female physically, then we probably can't agree except that we need to be civil to all people where possibke.
    The general point I was trying to make, which I'm not sure I was actually very clear about, was that if our society is going to go out of its way to make accommodation for those people who are physically not fully male or female (e.g. by having a 3rd gender, or similar social construct) which seems both justified and a sensible thing to do, then it seems to me there is little loss to anyone if others who wish to are also allowed to use those social constructs (because more freedom is better than less freedom in general).

    I simply do not think it makes sense to allow a person to demand the rest of the world, including themselves, deny what they actually are.
    I don't think this way of phrasing it makes sense. They are not denying what they actually are, as in they are not making a factually false statement about the biological sex of their own body. So your statement is factually false. They are actually saying that they are dissatisfied with, and unhappy about, the biological sex of their body. So they are, I think, comparable to a person who says "I am unhappy that I am overweight, I would like to lose weight", or "I am unhappy about the length/color of my hair, I would like to get a haircut/dye my hair". Trans people are aware of what the biological sex of their own body is, and are dissatisfied with it. Obviously as medical science continues to improve there will be increasingly more that can be done to change how the body looks / is, and people will continue to gain more options in terms of how they can physically change their bodies.

    This is especially ridiculous in the arena of men's and women's sports where some men that are not particularly competitive as men can 'win' when competing against women while claiming the are 'really' a woman.
    I agree. I think if trans-women are going to be allowed to compete in women's sports I think there should be very strict medical standards in place so that like is competing with like. I don't think that being nice to trans people in general extends to giving them a blank check to play in whatever sporting category they feel like.

    And I think it is this sort of absurdity that drives most to reject the sort of generic acceptance of the trans part of LGBTQ.
    I think it's silly and misguided to reject a whole category of people based on one extremist issue. If people don't want to have uneven sports competitions that's fine. But that hardly justifies a general across the board rejection of trans people as a whole.

    If my body is male, I should just accept that is who I am.
    In general we don't tend to do that on other issues - people commonly try to lose weight, gain muscle, use makeup, shave, do their hair, have medical operations, get tattoos and piercings, etc. On all sorts of issues people try very actively to change their bodies, and don't just accept that whatever their body is currently like is how things are going to be for them.

    Would we pay to hear a Bass scream and muddle through che gelida? Or would we want a tenor to be able to demand he be allowed to sing zorastro because he really way deep down thought he was a Bass? Of course you can sing what you want. But you cant force an audience to hang around and listen, or a critic to give you rave reviews.
    Is this a general assumption that people who have transitioned are not going to be able to convincingly pass muster as the other gender to observers? Because, in general, that is not true - modern medicine and hormonal treatments etc can make a person look/sound nigh on 100% like the gender they wish to be rather than the biological sex their body was born as.

  10. #69
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    by having a 3rd gender, or similar social construct
    Ok. Do that, and give them their own bathrooms, changing rooms, sports teams, prisons, homeless shelters, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    They are not denying what they actually are, as in they are not making a factually false statement about the biological sex of their own body.
    Blatantly false. Check up on the now-infamous story of Jessica Yaniv. There are biological men who claim to have periods. Some of them go so far as to "fake" them(no one wants to know what that means) in a pretense of femaleness. Saying that transwomen are biologically male has resulted in the speaker getting death threats, barred from public speaking engagements, and generally accused of hate speech. How is that possible if they know the biological sex of their own body?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    In general we don't tend to do that on other issues - people commonly try to lose weight, gain muscle, use makeup, shave, do their hair, have medical operations, get tattoos and piercings, etc. On all sorts of issues people try very actively to change their bodies, and don't just accept that whatever their body is currently like is how things are going to be for them.
    In all of those cases, I am free to disagree with the necessity of the change. I have never been accused of hate speech for poking fun at a celebrity who gets a nose job. This is what you don't seem to understand about this issue: If all it was was people wanting to live their lives in peace, albeit in a manner I don't approve of, I wouldn't care. At least, not enough to argue with you about it. But if I disagree with "sex reassignment surgery" I am a hateful bigot who wants them to die, even though I have taken no action - beyond speech - to keep them from having surgery. It is the imposition on MY rights, MY freedom, MY speech that I care about, not how other people want to live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Is this a general assumption that people who have transitioned are not going to be able to convincingly pass muster as the other gender to observers? Because, in general, that is not true - modern medicine and hormonal treatments etc can make a person look/sound nigh on 100% like the gender they wish to be rather than the biological sex their body was born as.
    Not at all true. Very few people can pass as the opposite sex. If they could, there would never have been a need to debate bathrooms, change rooms, etc etc.

  11. Amen Teallaura, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  12. #70
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    This sucks, I wanted to be a man specifically so I didn't have to get pregnant and have periods!
    I'm beginning to change my mind about this. Imagine the usefulness of being able to say "sorry, it's that time of the month" whenever you say something rude and the like

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  13. Amen seer amen'd this post.

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