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  • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
    Normal practice is for children to be on a puberty blocker until their later teens before going through HRT.
    But why? There can be negative effect from puberty blockers including on neurological development. And who knows how these kids will identify in adulthood? Why mess with their natural development when there is evidence that this is, more often than not, something they grow out of? It is medical and parental malpractice.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
      My argument is that any advantages transwomen have need to be specifically identified and differentiated from beneficial genetic mutation before demanding exclusion if there isn't an ulterior motive. There are plenty of muscular ciswoman athletes (look up women's shotput, weightlifting, and MMA), so the presence of the same among transwoman athletes doesn't meet the burden of proof. I also have no idea where in the transition process any given transwoman is so I cannot say if these depicted women meet my qualification of having comparable androgen levels to ciswomen, which would generally be an unfair advantage. It's noted that you haven't answered my question about transwomen who haven't gone through male puberty.
      So you just ignore reality for your own fantasy? Because the overwhelming evidence in sports is that transwomen are dominating because of their male physiques.


      And I think that letting children go through hormone therapy or blockers before they even reach puberty is child abuse. They have no idea what they want to be at that age. Heck my nephew wanted to be Batman. They don't even have any sexual attraction before puberty. Boys hate girls and think they have cooties. That doesn't make them gay. A person should at least be old enough to vote before they can choose to change their sex.

      Aren't you one of those that says pedophilia is wrong because a child is unable to consent to sex? Well if they are unable to consent to sex, or enter contracts, or make any other life defining decisions, they should not be able to choose to change sex.
      Last edited by Sparko; 12-12-2019, 08:09 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

        Aren't you one of those that says pedophilia is wrong because a child is unable to consent to sex? Well if they are unable to consent to sex, or enter contracts, or make any other life defining decisions, they should not be able to choose to change sex.
        That is an excellent point! For a pirate that is...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          But why? There can be negative effect from puberty blockers including on neurological development. And who knows how these kids will identify in adulthood? Why mess with their natural development when there is evidence that this is, more often than not, something they grow out of? It is medical and parental malpractice.
          Doctors recommend treatment with a variety of risk levels all the time, I don't see how this is any different. Wouldn't the best people to decide if a kid will grow out of it or not be their personal medical team?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            So you just ignore reality for your own fantasy? Because the overwhelming evidence in sports is that transwomen are dominating because of their male physiques.


            And I think that letting children go through hormone therapy or blockers before they even reach puberty is child abuse. They have no idea what they want to be at that age. Heck my nephew wanted to be Batman. They don't even have any sexual attraction before puberty. Boys hate girls and think they have cooties. That doesn't make them gay. A person should at least be old enough to vote before they can choose to change their sex.

            Aren't you one of those that says pedophilia is wrong because a child is unable to consent to sex? Well if they are unable to consent to sex, or enter contracts, or make any other life defining decisions, they should not be able to choose to change sex.
            Are you able to point out specific anatomical/biochemical advantages that would lead to this domination? Why does it not bother you when athletes with beneficial genetic mutations like Michael Phelps or the Kalenjin tribe dominate?

            There are plenty of children who undergo procedures of a greater risk because that's what their parent(s) and doctor(s) think is best for them. Are you against pediatric surgery or psychiatric medications?

            As an aside, the line "Aren't you one of those that says pedophilia is wrong because a child is unable to consent to sex?" baffles me. I should hope that everyone, sans acting pedophiles, thinks pedophilia is wrong because a child can't consent and that you are not excluding yourself from that category. Did you intend a different meaning?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
              As an aside, the line "Aren't you one of those that says pedophilia is wrong because a child is unable to consent to sex?" baffles me. I should hope that everyone, sans acting pedophiles, thinks pedophilia is wrong because a child can't consent and that you are not excluding yourself from that category. Did you intend a different meaning?
              I think Sparko, like many of the Christian posters here, doesn't base his morality on reasoning (e.g. not something like 'pedophilia is wrong because a child can't consent') and instead bases it on a hodge-podge of what the Christians around him believe with a bit of bible occasionally thrown in. Since the bible doesn't say much, if anything at all, about pedophilia, this is probably a case of people around him told him it was wrong when he was growing up, and he takes that to be the general 'Christian' view (notwithstanding Catholic Church aberrations).

              Whereas in contrast your moral views (and those of most atheists) tend to be more carefully reasoned out, and he's trying to use that against you here and suggest your reasoning ought to lead to conclusions about the treatment of transgender people. But, as you note, his suggested conclusion doesn't actually follow.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                Doctors recommend treatment with a variety of risk levels all the time, I don't see how this is any different. Wouldn't the best people to decide if a kid will grow out of it or not be their personal medical team?
                Because Homer, this is completely elective, and most likely is not a permanent condition. Why not use psychological therapy rather than messing with the natural development of the body until they are eighteen then let them decide.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                  Wouldn't the best people to decide if a kid will grow out of it or not be their personal medical team?
                  Don't you understand that the conservatives here know better than the doctors? The conservatives have firm views. Whereas those doctors and experts and trained professionals Just Don't Understand The Truth.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    I think Sparko, like many of the Christian posters here, doesn't base his morality on reasoning (e.g. not something like 'pedophilia is wrong because a child can't consent') and instead bases it on a hodge-podge of what the Christians around him believe with a bit of bible occasionally thrown in. Since the bible doesn't say much, if anything at all, about pedophilia, this is probably a case of people around him told him it was wrong when he was growing up, and he takes that to be the general 'Christian' view (notwithstanding Catholic Church aberrations).

                    Whereas in contrast your moral views (and those of most atheists) tend to be more carefully reasoned out, and he's trying to use that against you here and suggest your reasoning ought to lead to conclusions about the treatment of transgender people. But, as you note, his suggested conclusion doesn't actually follow.
                    How can you base any moral position on reasoning when there are no objective moral truths in the atheist world? You only end up arguing in a circle for your own personal preferences.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      How can you base any moral position on reasoning when there are no objective moral truths in the atheist world? You only end up arguing in a circle for your own personal preferences.
                      You always say this ad nauseum even when the answer is patiently explained to you 100 times over.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                        Are you able to point out specific anatomical/biochemical advantages that would lead to this domination? Why does it not bother you when athletes with beneficial genetic mutations like Michael Phelps or the Kalenjin tribe dominate?

                        There are plenty of children who undergo procedures of a greater risk because that's what their parent(s) and doctor(s) think is best for them. Are you against pediatric surgery or psychiatric medications?

                        As an aside, the line "Aren't you one of those that says pedophilia is wrong because a child is unable to consent to sex?" baffles me. I should hope that everyone, sans acting pedophiles, thinks pedophilia is wrong because a child can't consent and that you are not excluding yourself from that category. Did you intend a different meaning?
                        At an age when children are likely to tell you that they're anything from a unicorn to a cyborg it is definitely irresponsible to the point of abuse to indulge in these fantasies to the point of surgical modification. I mean would we allow a child to have a horn grafted to their head or start replacing perfectly fine body parts with mechanical ones?



                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          You always say this ad nauseum even when the answer is patiently explained to you 100 times over.
                          No you haven't Star, all you ever did was flounder with no logical justification. Stop fooling yourself.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                            Are you able to point out specific anatomical/biochemical advantages that would lead to this domination?
                            I already did. Their size, skeletal structure and musculature. I even showed you photos. Your response seems to be closing your eyes and ignoring anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

                            Why does it not bother you when athletes with beneficial genetic mutations like Michael Phelps or the Kalenjin tribe dominate?
                            Because they are natural and not artificial advantages. I am against doping with hormones also.


                            There are plenty of children who undergo procedures of a greater risk because that's what their parent(s) and doctor(s) think is best for them. Are you against pediatric surgery or psychiatric medications?
                            Surgery to fix defects is different than surgery to change sex. And you seem to be the one against psychiatric solutions. Rather than fixing their defective minds you think it's better to fit their bodies to their delusions.
                            As an aside, the line "Aren't you one of those that says pedophilia is wrong because a child is unable to consent to sex?" baffles me. I should hope that everyone, sans acting pedophiles, thinks pedophilia is wrong because a child can't consent and that you are not excluding yourself from that category. Did you intend a different meaning?
                            My meaning is that, as you say, everyone thinks Pedophilia is wrong because children can't consent or make mature choices. Children can't even enter into contracts. Yet, you think that they can make a choice to change their sex, which will affect the rest of their lives???? The cognitive disconnect baffles me.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              I think Sparko, like many of the Christian posters here, doesn't base his morality on reasoning (e.g. not something like 'pedophilia is wrong because a child can't consent') and instead bases it on a hodge-podge of what the Christians around him believe with a bit of bible occasionally thrown in. Since the bible doesn't say much, if anything at all, about pedophilia, this is probably a case of people around him told him it was wrong when he was growing up, and he takes that to be the general 'Christian' view (notwithstanding Catholic Church aberrations).

                              Whereas in contrast your moral views (and those of most atheists) tend to be more carefully reasoned out, and he's trying to use that against you here and suggest your reasoning ought to lead to conclusions about the treatment of transgender people. But, as you note, his suggested conclusion doesn't actually follow.
                              Wow. That's wrong.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Because Homer, this is completely elective, and most likely is not a permanent condition. Why not use psychological therapy rather than messing with the natural development of the body until they are eighteen then let them decide.
                                Could you define your use of elective? Medically speaking, most treatment is elective.

                                Trans people already go through psychological therapy prior to getting puberty-blockers, during which it is determined if their condition is permanent or not. Is this unsatisfactory for you?

                                Comment

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