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Thread: Second Amendment Sanctuary

  1. #151
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    AR15s are common arms.
    But they're not muskets. And they are not, relatively speaking, all that common. Most people who own a gun don't own an AR15.


    And remember the musket was the most advanced personal firearm of the time.
    Yeah, but that's the point seer, it was a different time, and the Founders, though I'm sure their thoughts were on the future when writing the constitution with respect to the system of governence they were trying to achieve. But I highly doubt that they concerned themselves about what kind of weaponry would exist 100-200 years in the future when writing the 2nd amendment. Limitations probably never crossed their minds. Plus, at that time, the U.S. didn't even have a standing army, the people if necessary, were the army, which was at least one of the reasons that the 2nd Amendment even exists. But they also never made the 2nd amendment unconditional in the sense of limitations, if they left the whole notion of limits or no limits out of the clause purposely, I doubt it, but had they, it would've been brilliant. Now, because it was left open, we are free, under the constitution, to make it law, that people can't have nuclear weapons, and we don't need to amend the constitution to do that. So, anyway, an amendment isn't needed in order for the representatives of the people, for the Congress, to limit by statute, the types of weaponry that a citizen can bear. In other words it's up to us, the Founders, whether purposely or not, left the question of limits open, which leaves it up to us.

  2. #152
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    But they're not muskets. And they are not, relatively speaking, all that common. Most people who own a gun don't own an AR15.



    Yeah, but that's the point seer, it was a different time, and the Founders, though I'm sure their thoughts were on the future when writing the constitution with respect to the system of governence they were trying to achieve. But I highly doubt that they concerned themselves about what kind of weaponry would exist 100-200 years in the future when writing the 2nd amendment. Limitations probably never crossed their minds. Plus, at that time, the U.S. didn't even have a standing army, the people if necessary, were the army, which was at least one of the reasons that the 2nd Amendment even exists. But they also never made the 2nd amendment unconditional in the sense of limitations, if they left the whole notion of limits or no limits out of the clause purposely, I doubt it, but had they, it would've been brilliant. Now, because it was left open, we are free, under the constitution, to make it law, that people can't have nuclear weapons, and we don't need to amend the constitution to do that. So, anyway, an amendment isn't needed in order for the representatives of the people, for the Congress, to limit by statute, the types of weaponry that a citizen can bear. In other words it's up to us, the Founders, whether purposely or not, left the question of limits open, which leaves it up to us.
    As we've repeatedly shown there were repeating weapons developed prior to writing the Constitution and modern semi-automatics around half a century later (something that some of the next generation would have lived to see) which is what an AR-15 is.

    Moreover your argument implies that things like freedom of speech and the press be limited to the spoken word, quills and hand-cranked printing presses and exclude telephones, TV, radio, computers and the like.

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  3. #153
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineOb View Post
    Why do you think I was asking to 100% eliminate all "bad guys with guns"? I asked if there was a better way than the mere knowledge that a good guy with a gun might be waiting for them. Can you not think of any other way to dissuade them from mass killing? Is that something we should investigate?
    Itís already being done and tried. The good guy with the gun is the last line of defense.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Itís already being done and tried. The good guy with the gun is the last line of defense.
    The Black Panthers also thought that, during the sixties in California. Americans, the NRA, and conservatives saw the images of black men carrying guns near the state house and decided restrictive gum laws were needed.

    MLK and others disagreed that the last line of defense was a gun. MLK adopted the bizarre idea that it was appealing to the heart and mind of society, and most importantly, the conscience of those in the Body if Christ.

    The bible or the gun, the bible and the gun. Is the bible without the gun effective?

  5. #155
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    The Black Panthers also thought that, during the sixties in California. Americans, the NRA, and conservatives saw the images of black men carrying guns near the state house and decided restrictive gum laws were needed.

    MLK and others disagreed that the last line of defense was a gun. MLK adopted the bizarre idea that it was appealing to the heart and mind of society, and most importantly, the conscience of those in the Body if Christ.

    The bible or the gun, the bible and the gun. Is the bible without the gun effective?
    Sure, but that still doesnít tell us to forgo personal safety either.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    As we've repeatedly shown there were repeating weapons developed prior to writing the Constitution and modern semi-automatics around half a century later (something that some of the next generation would have lived to see) which is what an AR-15 is.

    Moreover your argument implies that things like freedom of speech and the press be limited to the spoken word, quills and hand-cranked printing presses and exclude telephones, TV, radio, computers and the like.
    No, my argument is that we the people are free to make those decisions concerning limitations ourselves at the ballot box without amending the constitution so long as in doing so they don't violate the Constitution. An amendment isn't needed to limit weaponry for instance because there is no indication that the law was meant to be unlimited. We already have placed limits on the arms that citizens are allowed to bear.
    Justice Scalia has already indicated that there can be limits, the question is who is to determine what those limits will be. That's where we the people come in.
    Last edited by JimL; 01-20-2020 at 09:15 AM.

  7. #157
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    A lot of guys showing up with guns...

    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Itís already being done and tried. The good guy with the gun is the last line of defense.
    Shouldn't we also explore what could be an effective first line of defense?

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    A lot of guys showing up with guns...

    From the reports I've heard it was very peaceful and people were polite. They say antifa was there and that they were also behaved (well, of course; it's not like they're going to blindside anyone or attack with sticks a bunch of armed citizens lol). I guess the saying is true: "An armed society is a polite society."
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    From the reports I've heard it was very peaceful and people were polite. They say antifa was there and that they were also behaved (well, of course; it's not like they're going to blindside anyone or attack with sticks a bunch of armed citizens lol). I guess the saying is true: "An armed society is a polite society."
    Canada humbly requests a word.

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