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Second Amendment Sanctuary

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post
    AR15s are common arms.
    But they're not muskets. And they are not, relatively speaking, all that common. Most people who own a gun don't own an AR15.


    And remember the musket was the most advanced personal firearm of the time.
    Yeah, but that's the point seer, it was a different time, and the Founders, though I'm sure their thoughts were on the future when writing the constitution with respect to the system of governence they were trying to achieve. But I highly doubt that they concerned themselves about what kind of weaponry would exist 100-200 years in the future when writing the 2nd amendment. Limitations probably never crossed their minds. Plus, at that time, the U.S. didn't even have a standing army, the people if necessary, were the army, which was at least one of the reasons that the 2nd Amendment even exists. But they also never made the 2nd amendment unconditional in the sense of limitations, if they left the whole notion of limits or no limits out of the clause purposely, I doubt it, but had they, it would've been brilliant. Now, because it was left open, we are free, under the constitution, to make it law, that people can't have nuclear weapons, and we don't need to amend the constitution to do that. So, anyway, an amendment isn't needed in order for the representatives of the people, for the Congress, to limit by statute, the types of weaponry that a citizen can bear. In other words it's up to us, the Founders, whether purposely or not, left the question of limits open, which leaves it up to us.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      But they're not muskets. And they are not, relatively speaking, all that common. Most people who own a gun don't own an AR15.



      Yeah, but that's the point seer, it was a different time, and the Founders, though I'm sure their thoughts were on the future when writing the constitution with respect to the system of governence they were trying to achieve. But I highly doubt that they concerned themselves about what kind of weaponry would exist 100-200 years in the future when writing the 2nd amendment. Limitations probably never crossed their minds. Plus, at that time, the U.S. didn't even have a standing army, the people if necessary, were the army, which was at least one of the reasons that the 2nd Amendment even exists. But they also never made the 2nd amendment unconditional in the sense of limitations, if they left the whole notion of limits or no limits out of the clause purposely, I doubt it, but had they, it would've been brilliant. Now, because it was left open, we are free, under the constitution, to make it law, that people can't have nuclear weapons, and we don't need to amend the constitution to do that. So, anyway, an amendment isn't needed in order for the representatives of the people, for the Congress, to limit by statute, the types of weaponry that a citizen can bear. In other words it's up to us, the Founders, whether purposely or not, left the question of limits open, which leaves it up to us.
      As we've repeatedly shown there were repeating weapons developed prior to writing the Constitution and modern semi-automatics around half a century later (something that some of the next generation would have lived to see) which is what an AR-15 is.

      Moreover your argument implies that things like freedom of speech and the press be limited to the spoken word, quills and hand-cranked printing presses and exclude telephones, TV, radio, computers and the like.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Why do you think I was asking to 100% eliminate all "bad guys with guns"? I asked if there was a better way than the mere knowledge that a good guy with a gun might be waiting for them. Can you not think of any other way to dissuade them from mass killing? Is that something we should investigate?
        It’s already being done and tried. The good guy with the gun is the last line of defense.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          It’s already being done and tried. The good guy with the gun is the last line of defense.
          The Black Panthers also thought that, during the sixties in California. Americans, the NRA, and conservatives saw the images of black men carrying guns near the state house and decided restrictive gum laws were needed.

          MLK and others disagreed that the last line of defense was a gun. MLK adopted the bizarre idea that it was appealing to the heart and mind of society, and most importantly, the conscience of those in the Body if Christ.

          The bible or the gun, the bible and the gun. Is the bible without the gun effective?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            The Black Panthers also thought that, during the sixties in California. Americans, the NRA, and conservatives saw the images of black men carrying guns near the state house and decided restrictive gum laws were needed.

            MLK and others disagreed that the last line of defense was a gun. MLK adopted the bizarre idea that it was appealing to the heart and mind of society, and most importantly, the conscience of those in the Body if Christ.

            The bible or the gun, the bible and the gun. Is the bible without the gun effective?
            Sure, but that still doesn’t tell us to forgo personal safety either.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              As we've repeatedly shown there were repeating weapons developed prior to writing the Constitution and modern semi-automatics around half a century later (something that some of the next generation would have lived to see) which is what an AR-15 is.

              Moreover your argument implies that things like freedom of speech and the press be limited to the spoken word, quills and hand-cranked printing presses and exclude telephones, TV, radio, computers and the like.
              No, my argument is that we the people are free to make those decisions concerning limitations ourselves at the ballot box without amending the constitution so long as in doing so they don't violate the Constitution. An amendment isn't needed to limit weaponry for instance because there is no indication that the law was meant to be unlimited. We already have placed limits on the arms that citizens are allowed to bear.
              Justice Scalia has already indicated that there can be limits, the question is who is to determine what those limits will be. That's where we the people come in.
              Last edited by JimL; 01-20-2020, 10:15 AM.

              Comment


              • A lot of guys showing up with guns...

                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  It’s already being done and tried. The good guy with the gun is the last line of defense.
                  Shouldn't we also explore what could be an effective first line of defense?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    A lot of guys showing up with guns...

                    From the reports I've heard it was very peaceful and people were polite. They say antifa was there and that they were also behaved (well, of course; it's not like they're going to blindside anyone or attack with sticks a bunch of armed citizens lol). I guess the saying is true: "An armed society is a polite society."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      From the reports I've heard it was very peaceful and people were polite. They say antifa was there and that they were also behaved (well, of course; it's not like they're going to blindside anyone or attack with sticks a bunch of armed citizens lol). I guess the saying is true: "An armed society is a polite society."
                      Canada humbly requests a word.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        From the reports I've heard it was very peaceful and people were polite. They say antifa was there and that they were also behaved (well, of course; it's not like they're going to blindside anyone or attack with sticks a bunch of armed citizens lol). I guess the saying is true: "An armed society is a polite society."
                        Actually Antifa was on the side of the gun rights crowd.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Actually Antifa was on the side of the gun rights crowd.
                          Well, that's what the left was claiming, that they're actually for the second amendment. I find that really hard to believe. I think it was more like they wanted to get involved in a political rally and used their supposed support of the second amendment as a white flag lest armed folk there get the impression they were coming to attack.

                          Comment


                          • So it isn't about gun violence after all....

                            While Virginia Democratic lawmakers continue to advance legislation limiting the rights of legal gun owners in the state, they're also opposing Republican gun legislation — including a bill that would impose harsher sentencing minimums on those who use guns during the commission of a crime...

                            https://www.theblaze.com/news/virgin...during-a-crime
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              So it isn't about gun violence after all....
                              The anti-2A crowd has always displayed far more interest in going after inanimate objects than they do the persons who use them in an unlawful manner.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                                Shouldn't we also explore what could be an effective first line of defense?
                                Bump

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