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Thread: The Homeless Problem and Manufacturing

  1. #11
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Understanding, of course, that there will always be some, perhaps of the mental illness, who will live "on the streets" no matter what.

    But, yeah, the situation needs to be addressed.
    Of course there are. Those who prefer street living are fewer than those who want work, food, and shelter.

  2. #12
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    Of course there are. Those who prefer street living are fewer than those who want work, food, and shelter.
    Not fighting you, Whag -- just making the point that part of the process is determining which ones actually want help, and which ones want to be left alone. Too many times, we assume things we don't know.

    Not so much recently, but I remember when Houston Police would go on their "it's gonna freeze tonight, let's get you to a shelter" emphasis -- and many homeless would simply refuse to be helped. Now, it's entirely possible that it was because it was "the Police" as opposed to some aid agencies, but best efforts were made.

    Then there's the problem of -- in our community, there was an entire hotel - 140 rooms - dedicated to the homeless, and local aid agencies footed the bill. The problem was that it had the effect of concentrating all the criminals and druggies in the same place, and they had greater access to crime and drugs. It was sad, and about 2 years ago, the aid agencies finally admitted defeat.

    So, the big question is - when we get all these people together, how do we keep the situation from devolving to "the lowest common denominator"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    The problem with this is that the government does not have the right to make slaves of people just because they are homeless.

    Some people don't like being tied down to a mindless job and won';t submit themselves to such work. Other people just want to live a life without obligations to others. Other people have drug problems and may not fit well into rehab programs.

    There are some people who just had too many things acting against them and can use some help to get out of this. But it will take some ingenious plan to help these people. I'm not sure we can predicate who would have the genius solution that would not just be an endless welfare scheme. One thing that could help is to get rid of minimum wage laws -- these laws block people from taking on work that may be commensurate with their needs, desires and abilities, as they try to either survive in a homeless state or to rise out of it.
    The hardest part of this whole business - and I've been in it for over 30 years - is determining which ones want to actually improve their lives and which ones just want to game the system. You don't want to give up on somebody who can be "brought along", but you don't want to waste your time with somebody who's just gonna be a liability for everybody else.
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    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Not fighting you, Whag -- just making the point that part of the process is determining which ones actually want help, and which ones want to be left alone. Too many times, we assume things we don't know.

    Not so much recently, but I remember when Houston Police would go on their "it's gonna freeze tonight, let's get you to a shelter" emphasis -- and many homeless would simply refuse to be helped. Now, it's entirely possible that it was because it was "the Police" as opposed to some aid agencies, but best efforts were made.

    Then there's the problem of -- in our community, there was an entire hotel - 140 rooms - dedicated to the homeless, and local aid agencies footed the bill. The problem was that it had the effect of concentrating all the criminals and druggies in the same place, and they had greater access to crime and drugs. It was sad, and about 2 years ago, the aid agencies finally admitted defeat.

    So, the big question is - when we get all these people together, how do we keep the situation from devolving to "the lowest common denominator"?
    I've heard similar stories, and to be frank, I really don't know. What we need is a genius statesman to figure it out--a truly "stable genius" who gets things done and can work the problem. If only we had that. Sarcasm tags.

    Funny, but this isn't my idea. I actually heard it from a Chinese businessman who operated the U.S. division of computer parts/electric scooter/skateboard manufacturer. He was wondering why the homeless in his area (Ontario, California) couldn't be used help establish new manufacturing in the U.S., since they--like the Chinese--could assemble simple products in exchange for a living wage. It could at least make a dent.

    People don't realize that two ideologically opposed presidents--Reagan and Clinton--contributed greatly to the current mess. Reagan for closing mental institutions and Clinton for welfare reform without any real plan for the blowback.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    I've heard similar stories, and to be frank, I really don't know. What we need is a genius statesman to figure it out--a truly "stable genius" who gets things done and can work the problem. If only we had that. Sarcasm tags.

    Funny, but this isn't my idea. I actually heard it from a Chinese businessman who operated the U.S. division of computer parts/electric scooter/skateboard manufacturer. He was wondering why the homeless in his area (Ontario, California) couldn't be used help establish new manufacturing in the U.S., since they--like the Chinese--could assemble simple products in exchange for a living wage. It could at least make a dent.

    People don't realize that two ideologically opposed presidents--Reagan and Clinton--contributed greatly to the current mess. Reagan for closing mental institutions and Clinton for welfare reform without any real plan for the blowback.
    I would encourage you to look at your claim that "Reagan closed down mental institutions". I think you'll find that's a rather notorious myth. Care to discuss?
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    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I would encourage you to look at your claim that "Reagan closed down mental institutions". I think you'll find that's a rather notorious myth. Care to discuss?
    Sure. I've only read a few articles on it, including this one from '84:

    https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/s...nts-began.html

    Do you agree that Clinton contributed to the problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    Sure. I've only read a few articles on it, including this one from '84:

    https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/s...nts-began.html

    Do you agree that Clinton contributed to the problem?
    Look at my signature*.

    I think the liberals, with good intentions, decided that it was more important for the mentally ill to be "free" than to be "imprisoned", so I think a lot of this homelessness is the unintended consequence of "good intentions".




    *ETA - OOOOPS.... the one that said "every problem is the result of a previous solution".
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  9. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    Funny, but this isn't my idea. I actually heard it from a Chinese businessman who operated the U.S. division of computer parts/electric scooter/skateboard manufacturer. He was wondering why the homeless in his area (Ontario, California) couldn't be used help establish new manufacturing in the U.S., since they--like the Chinese--could assemble simple products in exchange for a living wage. It could at least make a dent.
    Obviously a western 'living wage' is too high to compete with the Chinese, good troll. The only way to even things is massive tariffs, which some "stable genius" statesman has being enacting on some trade.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

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    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Look at my signature*.

    I think the liberals, with good intentions, decided that it was more important for the mentally ill to be "free" than to be "imprisoned", so I think a lot of this homelessness is the unintended consequence of "good intentions".




    *ETA - OOOOPS.... the one that said "every problem is the result of a previous solution".
    Brainbender: the problem of evil. What "solution" caused that problem?

  12. #20
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Obviously a western 'living wage' is too high to compete with the Chinese, good troll. The only way to even things is massive tariffs, which some "stable genius" statesman has being enacting on some trade.
    Yup, that should help American soybean farmers.

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