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Thread: Trump Distances Himself from Guiliani

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    So what? He also mentioned AG Barr:

    "I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people, and I would like to get to the bottom of it." ... "I will ask [Mr. Giuliani] to call you along with the Attorney General ... whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great." ... "I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call, and I am also going to have attorney General Barr call, and we will get to the bottom of it." ... "I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to call."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...d-the-document

    Again, the question is whether or not Giuliani was acting on specific instruction from the President. Everything I can find suggests that he was not. From the report I referenced earlier:

    The coverage suggests Giuliani reached out to new Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s team this summer solely because he wanted to get dirt on possible Trump 2020 challenger Joe Biden and his son Hunter’s business dealings in that country.

    Politics or law could have been part of Giuliani’s motive, and neither would be illegal.

    But there is a missing part of the story that the American public needs in order to assess what really happened: Giuliani’s contact with Zelensky adviser and attorney Andrei Yermak this summer was encouraged and facilitated by the U.S. State Department.

    Giuliani didn’t initiate it. A senior U.S. diplomat contacted him in July and asked for permission to connect Yermak with him.

    Then, Giuliani met in early August with Yermak on neutral ground — in Spain — before reporting back to State everything that occurred at the meeting.

    That debriefing occurred Aug. 11 by phone with two senior U.S. diplomats, one with responsibility for Ukraine and the other with responsibility for the European Union, according to electronic communications records I reviewed and interviews I conducted.

    When asked on Friday, Giuliani confirmed to me that the State Department asked him to take the Yermak meeting and that he did, in fact, apprise U.S. officials every step of the way.

    “I didn’t even know who he [Yermak] really was, but they vouched for him. They actually urged me to talk to him because they said he seemed like an honest broker,” Giuliani told me. “I reported back to them [the two State officials] what my conversations with Yermak were about. All of this was done at the request of the State Department.”

    [...]

    Why would Ukraine want to talk to Giuliani, and why would the State Department be involved in facilitating it?

    According to interviews with more than a dozen Ukrainian and U.S. officials, Ukraine’s government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky has been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years.

    The Ukrainians say their efforts to get their allegations to U.S. authorities were thwarted first by the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, which failed to issue timely visas allowing them to visit America.

    Then the Ukrainians hired a former U.S. attorney — not Giuliani — to hand-deliver the evidence of wrongdoing to the U.S. attorney's office in New York, but the federal prosecutors never responded.

    The U.S. attorney, a respected American, confirmed the Ukrainians’ story to me. The allegations that Ukrainian officials wanted to pass on involved both efforts by the Democratic National Committee to pressure Ukraine to meddle in the 2016 U.S. election as well as Joe Biden’s son’s effort to make money in Ukraine while the former vice president managed U.S.-Ukraine relations, the retired U.S. attorney told me.

    Eventually, Giuliani in November 2018 got wind of the Ukrainian allegations and started to investigate.

    As President Trump’s highest-profile defense attorney, the former New York City mayor, often known simply as Rudy, believed the Ukrainian's evidence could assist in his defense against the Russia collusion investigation and former special counsel Robert Mueller’s final report.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...erture-to-rudy

    So again, the facts seem to indicate that while Giuliani was working on behalf of his client, he was not acting on specific instructions.
    So sad ...
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  2. #22
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I see... so I state facts and cite sources, and all you have in response are insults.

    I'll let others decide which of us has presented the stronger argument.

    No, you've already seen the evidence, you're not a complete dunce, at some level you know Trump is guilty, because, following it as you do, knowing the evidence as you do, you'd have to be a complete idiot not to know. And that tells me that there is no amount, absolutely no amount of evidence, that is ever going to cause you to admit to yourself, what deep down, you already know, i.e. that Trump is corrupt, that he violated the law, the Constitution, and that he abused the power of his office

  3. #23
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    So what? He also mentioned AG Barr:

    "I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people, and I would like to get to the bottom of it." ... "I will ask [Mr. Giuliani] to call you along with the Attorney General ... whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great." ... "I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call, and I am also going to have attorney General Barr call, and we will get to the bottom of it." ... "I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to call."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...d-the-document

    Again, the question is whether or not Giuliani was acting on specific instruction from the President. Everything I can find suggests that he was not. From the report I referenced earlier:

    The coverage suggests Giuliani reached out to new Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s team this summer solely because he wanted to get dirt on possible Trump 2020 challenger Joe Biden and his son Hunter’s business dealings in that country.

    Politics or law could have been part of Giuliani’s motive, and neither would be illegal.

    But there is a missing part of the story that the American public needs in order to assess what really happened: Giuliani’s contact with Zelensky adviser and attorney Andrei Yermak this summer was encouraged and facilitated by the U.S. State Department.

    Giuliani didn’t initiate it. A senior U.S. diplomat contacted him in July and asked for permission to connect Yermak with him.

    Then, Giuliani met in early August with Yermak on neutral ground — in Spain — before reporting back to State everything that occurred at the meeting.

    That debriefing occurred Aug. 11 by phone with two senior U.S. diplomats, one with responsibility for Ukraine and the other with responsibility for the European Union, according to electronic communications records I reviewed and interviews I conducted.

    When asked on Friday, Giuliani confirmed to me that the State Department asked him to take the Yermak meeting and that he did, in fact, apprise U.S. officials every step of the way.

    “I didn’t even know who he [Yermak] really was, but they vouched for him. They actually urged me to talk to him because they said he seemed like an honest broker,” Giuliani told me. “I reported back to them [the two State officials] what my conversations with Yermak were about. All of this was done at the request of the State Department.”

    [...]

    Why would Ukraine want to talk to Giuliani, and why would the State Department be involved in facilitating it?

    According to interviews with more than a dozen Ukrainian and U.S. officials, Ukraine’s government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky has been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years.

    The Ukrainians say their efforts to get their allegations to U.S. authorities were thwarted first by the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, which failed to issue timely visas allowing them to visit America.

    Then the Ukrainians hired a former U.S. attorney — not Giuliani — to hand-deliver the evidence of wrongdoing to the U.S. attorney's office in New York, but the federal prosecutors never responded.

    The U.S. attorney, a respected American, confirmed the Ukrainians’ story to me. The allegations that Ukrainian officials wanted to pass on involved both efforts by the Democratic National Committee to pressure Ukraine to meddle in the 2016 U.S. election as well as Joe Biden’s son’s effort to make money in Ukraine while the former vice president managed U.S.-Ukraine relations, the retired U.S. attorney told me.

    Eventually, Giuliani in November 2018 got wind of the Ukrainian allegations and started to investigate.

    As President Trump’s highest-profile defense attorney, the former New York City mayor, often known simply as Rudy, believed the Ukrainian's evidence could assist in his defense against the Russia collusion investigation and former special counsel Robert Mueller’s final report.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...erture-to-rudy

    So again, the facts seem to indicate that while Giuliani was working on behalf of his client, he was not acting on specific instructions.
    Your naivety aside, you have to be frustrated with Giuliani for creating such a mess. Now you at least understand what Bolton meant by calling Giuliani “a hand grenade.” Instead of protecting his client by going down this dubious rabbit trail, he made it a million times worse for him.

  4. #24
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    Your naivety aside, you have to be frustrated with Giuliani for creating such a mess. Now you at least understand what Bolton meant by calling Giuliani “a hand grenade.” Instead of protecting his client by going down this dubious rabbit trail, he made it a million times worse for him.
    I really don't know enough about the Giuliani situation to draw any conclusions, but I do find it curious that the Feds are turning up the heat on Trump's legal team just as the Department of Justice is preparing to strike back against the coup. I can't convince myself that the timing is coincidental.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #25
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I really don't know enough about the Giuliani situation to draw any conclusions, but I do find it curious that the Feds are turning up the heat on Trump's legal team just as the Department of Justice is preparing to strike back against the coup. I can't convince myself that the timing is coincidental.
    That’s convenient. You know plenty about everything else to make conclusions aplenty, but somehow the tons of evidence showing Guiliani’s malfeasance eludes you.

    The impeachment is as much a coup as Ken Starr’s Whitewater obsession, which morphed into the Lewinsky investigation when WW fell flat. That was exactly the language of the Clinton and Nixon cults when they were under investigation. But it’s different this time, right?
    Last edited by whag; 12-02-2019 at 08:36 AM.

  6. #26
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    That’s convenient.
    Whatever you say.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. #27
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    That’s convenient. You know plenty about everything else to make conclusions aplenty, but somehow the tons of evidence showing Guiliani’s malfeasance eludes you.

    The impeachment is as much a coup as Ken Starr’s Whitewater obsession, which morphed into the Lewinsky investigation when WW fell flat. That was exactly the language of the Clinton and Nixon cults when they were under investigation. But it’s different this time, right?
    Yep. Because it's his cult this time dag nab it!
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  8. #28
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Yep. Because it's his cult this time dag nab it!
    Frankly, reactions like this say more about you than they do about me.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #29
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Yep. Because it's his cult this time dag nab it!
    The Nixon, Clinton, and Trump bootlickers are too blind to see how insulting the word “coup” is in the context of a legit impeachment inquiry. Citizens of other nations who’ve actually endured bloody takeovers laugh at how spoiled we are to use that language.

    All three presidents shot themselves in the foot with their behavior and bad staff management, and all cried about being persecuted and harassed. Trump’s whining is the inverse of Hillary’s “vast right wing conspiracy” canard. She and Trump made good friends for a reason. They’re both backstabbing narcissistic snakes.

  10. #30
    Department Head
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Yes, we have evidence, but you will never see it.
    If you have evidence Cite your source.

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