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Thread: Trump Distances Himself from Guiliani

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I suppose the first question is whether or not Trump directed Giuliani to visit Ukraine. As far as I know, Giuliani has always given the impression in interviews that he was acting on his own. That's also the impression I got from this investigative report published about two-months ago:

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...erture-to-rudy
    Of course Giuliani was working for Trump, or did you not hear of Trumps phone call to Zelensky wherein he tells him to speak with Giuliani.

  2. #12
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Of course Giuliani was working for Trump, or did you not hear of Trumps phone call to Zelensky wherein he tells him to speak with Giuliani.
    Mountain Man finds it believable that Trump could set up such a conduit while concurrently being clueless about what Giuliani was doing in Ukraine.

  3. #13
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wag View Post
    Mountain Man finds it believable that Trump could set up such a conduit while concurrently being clueless about what Giuliani was doing in Ukraine.
    That's not what I said. Read my post again.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #14
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That's not what I said. Read my post again.
    I donít need to read it again. You believe Guiliani was acting on his own, which he clearly was not.

  5. #15
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wag View Post
    I donít need to read it again. You believe Guiliani was acting on his own, which he clearly was not.
    Again, the impression that has been presented in a number of interviews and in the investigative report I referenced is that while Giuliani was working on Trump's behalf, he was not acting on any specific instructions from the President. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. #16
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Again, the impression that has been presented in a number of interviews and in the investigative report I referenced is that while Giuliani was working on Trump's behalf, he was not acting on any specific instructions from the President. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
    Yes, we have evidence, but you will never see it.

  7. #17
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Yes, we have evidence, but you will never see it.
    And that evidence is...?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  8. #18
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    He mentioned Guiliani in the Zelenskyy phone call...
    So what? He also mentioned AG Barr:

    "I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people, and I would like to get to the bottom of it." ... "I will ask [Mr. Giuliani] to call you along with the Attorney General ... whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great." ... "I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call, and I am also going to have attorney General Barr call, and we will get to the bottom of it." ... "I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to call."

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...d-the-document

    Again, the question is whether or not Giuliani was acting on specific instruction from the President. Everything I can find suggests that he was not. From the report I referenced earlier:

    The coverage suggests Giuliani reached out to new Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyís team this summer solely because he wanted to get dirt on possible Trump 2020 challenger Joe Biden and his son Hunterís business dealings in that country.

    Politics or law could have been part of Giulianiís motive, and neither would be illegal.

    But there is a missing part of the story that the American public needs in order to assess what really happened: Giulianiís contact with Zelensky adviser and attorney Andrei Yermak this summer was encouraged and facilitated by the U.S. State Department.

    Giuliani didnít initiate it. A senior U.S. diplomat contacted him in July and asked for permission to connect Yermak with him.

    Then, Giuliani met in early August with Yermak on neutral ground ó in Spain ó before reporting back to State everything that occurred at the meeting.

    That debriefing occurred Aug. 11 by phone with two senior U.S. diplomats, one with responsibility for Ukraine and the other with responsibility for the European Union, according to electronic communications records I reviewed and interviews I conducted.

    When asked on Friday, Giuliani confirmed to me that the State Department asked him to take the Yermak meeting and that he did, in fact, apprise U.S. officials every step of the way.

    ďI didnít even know who he [Yermak] really was, but they vouched for him. They actually urged me to talk to him because they said he seemed like an honest broker,Ē Giuliani told me. ďI reported back to them [the two State officials] what my conversations with Yermak were about. All of this was done at the request of the State Department.Ē

    [...]

    Why would Ukraine want to talk to Giuliani, and why would the State Department be involved in facilitating it?

    According to interviews with more than a dozen Ukrainian and U.S. officials, Ukraineís government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky has been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years.

    The Ukrainians say their efforts to get their allegations to U.S. authorities were thwarted first by the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, which failed to issue timely visas allowing them to visit America.

    Then the Ukrainians hired a former U.S. attorney ó not Giuliani ó to hand-deliver the evidence of wrongdoing to the U.S. attorney's office in New York, but the federal prosecutors never responded.

    The U.S. attorney, a respected American, confirmed the Ukrainiansí story to me. The allegations that Ukrainian officials wanted to pass on involved both efforts by the Democratic National Committee to pressure Ukraine to meddle in the 2016 U.S. election as well as Joe Bidenís sonís effort to make money in Ukraine while the former vice president managed U.S.-Ukraine relations, the retired U.S. attorney told me.

    Eventually, Giuliani in November 2018 got wind of the Ukrainian allegations and started to investigate.

    As President Trumpís highest-profile defense attorney, the former New York City mayor, often known simply as Rudy, believed the Ukrainian's evidence could assist in his defense against the Russia collusion investigation and former special counsel Robert Muellerís final report.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...erture-to-rudy

    So again, the facts seem to indicate that while Giuliani was working on behalf of his client, he was not acting on specific instructions.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  10. #19
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Yes, we have evidence, but you will never see it.
    It's been in front of your face MM, and repeated to you ad infinitum, so if you fail to see it still, then you ain't ever going to see it. Again, there are none so blind as..........brainwashed cult members.

  11. #20
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    It's been in front of your face MM, and repeated to you ad infinitum, so if you fail to see it still, then you ain't ever going to see it. Again, there are none so blind as..........brainwashed cult members.
    I see... so I state facts and cite sources, and all you have in response are insults.

    I'll let others decide which of us has presented the stronger argument.

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  12. Amen NorrinRadd, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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