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Thread: Little Greta comes clean

  1. #81
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    Maybe a bit too far.

    Uh, yeah ... the point being no thread with folks ranting about communists and watermelons has any business calling anyone else out for starting a fight, with the additional point that it shouldn't need a lampoonist to make that point.

    Ya should have seen that before you posted, piglet.

    And you should abandon it entirely in the sequel.


    I would love to see a debate, instead, about how we should improve the environment in the face of global warming. Maybe you could point me to the sober, conservative alternatives to massive government intervention that are more likely to address the crisis. And no, simply denying it's a crisis is not a solution, certainly not sober, and arguably not conservative, either.

    That shouldn't be a point I need to make, either.
    Being unwilling to be manipulated by scam artists claiming science is on their side is a perfectly reasonable and valid position to take. There is no crisis. The sky isn't falling. And all the hysteria being used to try to get people to believe and sign away their prosperity has come back to bite. Even if there really is a problem who's going to believe the latest hype?

    It's just a very big scam. Letting hysterical children be the spokesmen goes a long way toward proving what kind of scam it is.

  2. Amen mossrose, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #82
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Paper is anything but "environmentally friendly"

    Sure it decomposes easily enough, but paper mills are one of the largest polluters on the planet. They use caustic chemicals and bleaches to break down the wood fibers, for one. And have traditionally dumped those chemicals into the environment. Not to mention deforestation in many parts of the world. Even recycling paper causes a lot of pollution.
    To be fair the mills are much better than they were. When I was a teenager we would pass a big mill on the way to band camp. You know it's bad when kids are pulling up windows on an unairconditioned bus in mid August.

  4. #83
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    He implied that I personally am ruining the environment for my children and grandchildren. And I am reacting because, as I said, I am sick of the insults and attitudes of people with whom I disagree.
    Global warming and the consequent increase in catastrophic weather patterns is beyond doubt. To deny its existence (for whatever reason) and sneer at efforts to rectify it is to jeopardize the future of our children and grandchildren.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...lobal-warming/
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. #84
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    http://www.poletical.com/a-dark-history-of-the-ndp.php

    In 1933, an obscure group known as The Cooperative Commonwealth Federation (CCF) drafted a document entitled The Regina Manifesto. The CCF eventually merged with The Canadian Labour Congress to form the political party that is known today as the New Democratic Party, or NDP.

    In 2011, the NDP surged to become Canada's official opposition for the first time in its history, deposing the long standing centrist Liberal Party Of Canada. This sudden and unprecedented wave of support was called The Orange Crush.

    Many young Canadians are unfamiliar with the true nature and history of the NDP. Their political ideologies have been well known amongst the party's establishment, but this new wave of supporters have exhibited a disturbing level of ignorance in terms of what the New Democrats have set out to achieve in their goal to fundamentally transform Canada.

    The goals of the NDP were set out in 1933 upon the creation of The Regina Manifesto. The Manifesto was eventually replaced with The Winnipeg Declaration to reflect a seemingly less radical version of the CCF's original platform which was largely rejected by Canadians. The Winnipeg Declaration was a more vague and watered down version of the original Manifesto and it used different language to outline what was essentially the very same goals that were originally set fourth by the CCF.
    Are you confusing the Regina Manifesto of the CCF with the Communist Manifesto? You said:
    the NDP government, who's model of operation is the communist manifesto
    A manifesto is a pamphlet or short book. Not all manifestos are the same just as not all books or pamphlets are the same. The Koran and the Bible aren't the same despite both being religious books. The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848 by Marx and Engels. The Regina Manifesto was written in 1933 by the CCF. Not the same work.

    Also, you seem to making a basic logical mistake I see all the time from Rogue on these forums: Just because generations ago one organisation merged into another, it doesn't mean the current organisation is defined by the views of any particular one of those now-extinct contributing organisations. It was the CCF who wrote the Regina Manifesto. They stopped existing in 1961, when they merged with another organisation, and the merged organisation held new and different views, and did not hold to the Regina Manifesto.

    The NDP's views aren't going to be the same today as they were in 1961 because groups change over time and no politician who was in the NDP in 1961 is still going to be in the NDP today. The NDP of today does not hold to the Communist Manifesto, nor to the Regina Manifesto. And, in fact, in no part of the history of the NDP organisation, from 1961 when it was formed, to the present, does the NDP appear to have held either of those two different works to be its views.
    Last edited by Starlight; 12-05-2019 at 10:18 PM.

  6. #85
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    "Communist" is perhaps going a bit far, though in practice socialism and communism aren't especially distinguishable.
    Simple difference:

    Communism: The government owns and operates ALL the businesses (or very close to it). The business you work for, the business your neighbor works for, the business down the street, all government owned and operated. A government running one business (e.g. the post office), or a sector (e.g. electricity production), isn't communism.

    Democratic socialism: Workers have significant control of, and ownership stake in, the businesses they work in. e.g. through cooperatives, labor unions, employee share ownership, board representation, democratic processes in the workplace for making major decisions, worker's rights etc.

    Small-s socialism being misused as a slang term by Americans: Tax and spend political policies of any kind, where the government does a project or program of some kind.


    So if you're wondering in any given situation, just ask yourself, "is the government running all the businesses?" (Communism), or "are the workers running all the businesses?" (Democratic socialism), or "are private individuals running all the businesses?" (Capitalism), or "am I complaining about a specific government program or project?" (small-s socialism being misused to mean something completely different to Socialism, usually in the US).

    Usually when environmentalists are accused of socialism, it's that final meaning - the complaint being made is that they are proposing spending some government money to help the environment. Though the rather unique complaint being made in this thread is that Greta has some other ideas and views that are influencing her environmental activism and that Greta thinks multiple issues can be addressed at once... which isn't really any of the kinds of communism or socialism, and I think is best described as "having opinions on more than one political issue, and believing they interact".

  7. #86
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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  8. Amen mossrose, Teallaura amen'd this post.
  9. #87
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    I didn't know she was striking from school. I honestly haven't paid much attention to this child, but now I'm curious: Who is a school strike supposed to hurt or inconvenience?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #88
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I didn't know she was striking from school. I honestly haven't paid much attention to this child, but now I'm curious: Who is a school strike supposed to hurt or inconvenience?
    That's actually kind of an interesting questions, as school districts (at least in Texas) get funding appropriated on the number of students attending each day. They watch this like a hawk, which is why they aggressively prosecuted my wife and I when we decided to homeschool our kids decades ago. They even threatened to take our children away if we didn't get them back in public school.

    I guess, though, that the liberals are willing to make exceptions for "causes" with which they agree.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  11. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  12. #89
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I didn't know she was striking from school. I honestly haven't paid much attention to this child, but now I'm curious: Who is a school strike supposed to hurt or inconvenience?
    FYI - https://www.eniday.com/en/human_en/g...mate-movement/

  13. #90
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Are you confusing the Regina Manifesto of the CCF with the Communist Manifesto? You said:
    A manifesto is a pamphlet or short book. Not all manifestos are the same just as not all books or pamphlets are the same. The Koran and the Bible aren't the same despite both being religious books. The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848 by Marx and Engels. The Regina Manifesto was written in 1933 by the CCF. Not the same work.

    Also, you seem to making a basic logical mistake I see all the time from Rogue on these forums: Just because generations ago one organisation merged into another, it doesn't mean the current organisation is defined by the views of any particular one of those now-extinct contributing organisations. It was the CCF who wrote the Regina Manifesto. They stopped existing in 1961, when they merged with another organisation, and the merged organisation held new and different views, and did not hold to the Regina Manifesto.

    The NDP's views aren't going to be the same today as they were in 1961 because groups change over time and no politician who was in the NDP in 1961 is still going to be in the NDP today. The NDP of today does not hold to the Communist Manifesto, nor to the Regina Manifesto. And, in fact, in no part of the history of the NDP organisation, from 1961 when it was formed, to the present, does the NDP appear to have held either of those two different works to be its views.
    You seem so concerned about protecting pure Marxist Communism that you don't want modern groups to take credit as being modern variations of Marxist Communism. People who have wanted to see class warfare happen have since recognized that that won't happen. So they promote alternatives like race (and other divisions) reinvigorated through things like intersectionality (CP, did I get the right word this time?). The modern tentacles of communism hope to cause revolution based on these new forms.
    While it is possible some groups could get misrepresented as modern forms of communism, but this mistaken identity doesn't even mean they are less harmful. I meant also to say that such misrepresentation doesn't mean that no groups aren't modern forms of communism. That is too bad. On the other hand, if they look close enough to communism, or they attract advocates of communism, then the group has veered into trouble anyhow.

    The States aren't even compatible with 's'ocialism. It is destructive on our form of government and our freedom.

    Maybe you can help and let us know some of the groups that you can warn us about. Which groups have doctrine too close to communism or are being steered by communist participants?
    Last edited by mikewhitney; 12-06-2019 at 10:43 AM.

  14. Amen LostSheep, seer, mossrose amen'd this post.

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