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Thread: Nunes sues CNN over 'demonstrably false' Ukraine report

  1. #61
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You're uninformed. Read the link Cow Poke helpfully provided if you want the real facts, but the short version is the whole thing started because of an actual crime: the Watergate break-in. This was followed by arrests and convictions through which hard evidence was discovered that led straight back to the Oval Office. This prompted the Senate to appoint a special prosecutor who uncovered even more damning evidence, including public testimony from firsthand witnesses that Nixon had orchestrated the break-in, was involved in a cover-up, and that he had personally bribed the Watergate "burglars" to keep their mouths shut. It was around this time that Nixon attempted to have the special prosecutor fired. It was only then, after it was clear that Nixon was deeply involved in criminal activity, that there were calls for his impeachment.

    Contrast this with Mueller being appointed to investigate Trump without a crime ever having been committed!
    The question was when did impeachment start, the answer is that it began when, and as a result of, the Saturday night Massacre, i.e. after Nixon fired his Atty Gen. et al. for not firing the special prosecutor Archibald Cox.

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    The impeachment inquiry started with the Saturday night massacre, when Nixon fired his Attorney general et. al. for not firing the special prosecutor.
    But the whole thing was triggered by an actual undeniable incontestable CRIME.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  3. #63
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    Well it’s not like Trump didn’t demand loyalty of Comey, ask him to exonerate Flynn, and then fire him after Comey (way too politely) rebuffed POTUS for such reckless asks. That wasn’t suspicious at all.
    That's the fake news version at any rate. Trump never demanded Comey's loyalty, and he didn't ask him to exonerate Flynn. What he said was he hoped the FBI would be able to clear Flynn, which even Comey admitted in his public hearing was not an order or even a request even though he said he assumed it was one.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #64
    tWebber whag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That's the fake news version at any rate. Trump never demanded Comey's loyalty, and he didn't ask him to exonerate Flynn. What he said was he hoped the FBI would be able to clear Flynn, which even Comey admitted in his public hearing was not an order or even a request even though he said he assumed it was one.
    Trump’s hopes for FBI “loyalty” and the clearing of “good man“ Flynn are totally inappropriate in a first meeting with FBI director, and you know it. Trump knew about Comey before that meeting and was testing him. When Comey failed the test, he was fired. It was Trump’s first shot in the foot.

  5. #65
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    But the whole thing was triggered by an actual undeniable incontestable CRIME.
    Sure, but that wasn't the assertion, the assertion by you was that the impeachment started due to that crime, i.e. to the Watergate break-in.. It wasn't. It began in response to Nixon's ordering and then firing of the Attorney General for his refusal to fire the special prosecutor, an act that Trump himself committed. In other words it wasn't in response to the actual crime that the Impeachment inquiry began, it was in response to the presidents obstruction and attempt to cover-up the crime. So, by precedent alone, the ordering of, and the firing of, Jeff Sessions for refusing to carry out that order to fire the special prosecutor, along with the continued obstruction of Congress was reason enough to begin an impeachment inquiry into Trump.
    Last edited by JimL; 12-06-2019 at 08:59 PM.

  6. #66
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Sure, but that wasn't the assertion, the assertion by you was that the impeachment started due to that crime, i.e. to the Watergate break-in.. It wasn't. It began in response to Nixon's ordering and then firing of the Attorney General for his refusal to fire the special prosecutor, an act that Trump himself committed. In other words it wasn't in response to the actual crime that the Impeachment inquiry began, it was in response to the presidents obstruction and attempt to cover-up the crime. So, by precedent alone, the ordering of, and the firing of, Jeff Sessions for refusing to carry out that order to fire the special prosecutor, along with the continued obstruction of Congress was reason enough to begin an impeachment inquiry into Trump.
    Just like a liberal to try to slip out on a technicality. If there hadn't been the crime, there would not have been the need for a coverup.

    The fact is that the whole Nixon thing can be tied to an actual crime that was undeniable. They didn't have to go looking for a crime, or using their wild imaginations to invent a crime, or have focus groups help them figure out what to call it, or have a session with activist lawyers to try to help them figure out what the Constitution says.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by whag View Post
    Trump’s hopes for FBI “loyalty” and the clearing of “good man“ Flynn are totally inappropriate in a first meeting with FBI director, and you know it. Trump knew about Comey before that meeting and was testing him. When Comey failed the test, he was fired. It was Trump’s first shot in the foot.
    Yep, I believe that "I hope you can let this thing go" were the words Trump put to Comey regarding Flynn. Comey didn't comply and Trump made sure to get rid of him once he realized Comey was a principled man and wouldn't succumb to his pressure. Then he met with the Russians in the oval office where they had a good laugh together; Trump telling them that the pressure with the Russian thing was gone now because he got rid of Comey.

  8. #68
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Just like a liberal to try to slip out on a technicality. If there hadn't been the crime, there would not have been the need for a coverup.

    The fact is that the whole Nixon thing can be tied to an actual crime that was undeniable. They didn't have to go looking for a crime, or using their wild imaginations to invent a crime, or have focus groups help them figure out what to call it, or have a session with activist lawyers to try to help them figure out what the Constitution says.
    Doesn't matter if there was an actual crime prior to the crime of obstruction or not, the impeachment of Nixon was begun because of the obstruction. And in Trumps case, obstruction of an investigation into an alleged crime is not only illegal, and highly problematic with respect to the Constitution and the Congressional resposibility to uphold it, but it also implicates the obstructor of having committed a crime.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Doesn't matter
    Your way of not admitting you were wrong by trying to change the narrative.

    if there was an actual crime prior to the crime of obstruction or not,
    Jim, that's just nutty -- you can't find any account of Nixon's impeachment (attempt) that doesn't start with Watergate.

    the impeachment of Nixon was begun because of the obstruction.
    Because there was an actual crime that was absolutely undeniable.

    And in Trumps case, obstruction of an investigation into an alleged crime is not only illegal, and highly problematic with respect to the Constitution and the Congressional resposibility to uphold it, but it also implicates the obstructor of having committed a crime.
    This is why you have to keep pretending that Nixon's impeachment (attempt) wasn't triggered by an actual crime. A REAL crime. A crime nobody disputes happened, or what it was.

    No account of Richard Nixon glosses over the fact that his downfall began with the actual crime of the break-in. An actual REAL crime, not an alleged one.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  10. #70
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Your way of not admitting you were wrong by trying to change the narrative.



    Jim, that's just nutty -- you can't find any account of Nixon's impeachment (attempt) that doesn't start with Watergate.



    Because there was an actual crime that was absolutely undeniable.



    This is why you have to keep pretending that Nixon's impeachment (attempt) wasn't triggered by an actual crime. A REAL crime. A crime nobody disputes happened, or what it was.

    No account of Richard Nixon glosses over the fact that his downfall began with the actual crime of the break-in. An actual REAL crime, not an alleged one.
    There is an actual crime here as well, a real one, even if you are incapable of admitting to it.

  11. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.

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