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Thread: False Idol Why the Christian Right Worships Donald Trump

  1. #61
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I didn't know you could hurl an elephant that far.

    Needless to say, I'm not obligated to accept the dozens of hidden assumptions in the above paragraph.
    All pretty well established fact, you're just unwilling to believe. Some of what I wrote about is literally on audio recordings that have been aired publicly. Some have vast amounts of documentation combined with admissions Trump's lawyers have made in court. I'll waste no further effort trying to convince the willfully ignorant.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  2. Amen Charles amen'd this post.
  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I think most of what you're describing (at least what's legitimate) is pretty much how the wealthy elite, including those in government, typically operate. The reason the actions of Trump is exposed is because no political figure has ever been this much under the microscope. Therefore, since most government figures operate this way and this is how the system itself operates, Christians would have to disengage entirely from politics, especially politics on a national level.
    I think it's so exposed because Trump hasn't been a political figure until now, and he's too arrogant or stupid to bother trying to hide it.

    And I don't have to disengage from politics to call out wrongdoing when I see it. It's not as simple as an either/or support Trump in everything versus ignore politics.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    I think it's so exposed because Trump hasn't been a political figure until now, and he's too arrogant or stupid to bother trying to hide it.

    And I don't have to disengage from politics to call out wrongdoing when I see it. It's not as simple as an either/or support Trump in everything versus ignore politics.
    Things have become politically tribal, so it's difficult to criticize Trump when the left does this constantly, relentlessly, nonstop, for things that are both legit and things that are not legit. I personally don't have a problem doing it, but I can understand how it's a delicate matter for others. You don't want to give even an inch to the left when the political environment has become this tribal. I think the main concern for us as Christians is that the left has gone so far radically left -- with direct threats against both the first and second amendments, among other things -- that we don't have much of a choice in this case. It's critical we don't allow a Dem to get into office at this point, because then it's pretty much game over.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  5. Amen seer, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  6. #64
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    All pretty well established fact, you're just unwilling to believe. Some of what I wrote about is literally on audio recordings that have been aired publicly. Some have vast amounts of documentation combined with admissions Trump's lawyers have made in court. I'll waste no further effort trying to convince the willfully ignorant.
    I'm familiar with everything you're talking about, so your accusation that I'm "willfully ignorant" misses its mark. The point is, simply listing incidences that involve Donald Trump does not prove that everything you happen to believe about those incidences is necessarily true, which is why I said I'm not obligated to accept the hidden assumptions within your post.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  8. #65
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I'm familiar with everything you're talking about, so your accusation that I'm "willfully ignorant" misses its mark. The point is, simply listing incidences that involve Donald Trump does not prove that everything you happen to believe about those incidences is necessarily true, which is why I said I'm not obligated to accept the hidden assumptions within your post.
    I'm aware you're not obligated to accept anything, I'm not sure why you keep saying that. Probably because you aren't even refuting the accusations, so you've got to come up with something to say. I really didn't expect much else; you might be the most pro-Trump Twebber there is. You keep doing you, though. But it's not really a good look.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  9. #66
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    But it's not really a good look.
    Are you going to become another sanctimonious ass? We already have enough posters crying 'it's not a good look'.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  10. Amen Mountain Man, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  11. #67
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    Things have become politically tribal, so it's difficult to criticize Trump when the left does this constantly, relentlessly, nonstop, for things that are both legit and things that are not legit. I personally don't have a problem doing it, but I can understand how it's a delicate matter for others. You don't want to give even an inch to the left when the political environment has become this tribal. I think the main concern for us as Christians is that the left has gone so far radically left -- with direct threats against both the first and second amendments, among other things -- that we don't have much of a choice in this case. It's critical we don't allow a Dem to get into office at this point, because then it's pretty much game over.
    Yeah I get it. That's what I voted for Trump and probably (sigh) will again. I'm just highly concerned that Christians who vociferously support Trump without qualifying their support, are making it appear that our value system condones the type of things he's doing. That damages our ability to evangelize greatly, and I've personally seen this with nonbelievers I've talked to. Quite frankly, they're aghast at how much support Christians are giving him. And you know what? They should be. Our moral and ethical principles should be more nuanced than non-believers, not the other way around.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  12. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Are you going to become another sanctimonious ass? We already have enough posters crying 'it's not a good look'.
    No, but Mountain Man doesn't get to pretend to have settled the argument when he didn't really make an argument at all. "I reject your facts" is a terrible argument. Just because my opinion isn't popular doesn't make me an ass. But be careful who you call an ass, lest you look like one yourself.

    seanD is making the best pseudo-pro-Trump arguments here, but I'm still not convinced that the failure to call out sin by evangelicals is justified. But at least he's making reasoned arguments, which I respect.
    Last edited by myth; 12-07-2019 at 05:36 PM.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  13. #69
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    No, but Mountain Man doesn't get to pretend to have settled the argument when he didn't really make an argument at all. "I reject your facts" is a terrible argument. Just because my opinion isn't popular doesn't make me an ass. But be careful who you call an ass, lest you look like one yourself.
    Why should he refute when you've provided no evidence?

    Some of the accusations that 'Orange Man Bad' are hard to establish. 'He refused to pay some contractors, boohoo', we all know stories of terrible contractors and Trump's side of the story is that he refused to pay them because they did bad work and therefore broke the contract. It would be natural for many such stories to exist, since Trump built a lot of buildings and must have hired thousands of contractors. How are we to judge the truth without looking at the contract, and whatever service the contractors provided? It's impossible, and taking these seriously demonstrates your gullibility.
    Last edited by demi-conservative; 12-07-2019 at 05:38 PM.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  14. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  15. #70
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Why should he refute when you've provided no evidence?

    Some of the accusations that 'Orange Man Bad' are hard to establish. 'He refused to pay some contractors, boohoo', we all know stories of terrible contractors and Trump's side of the story is that he refused to pay them because they did bad work and therefore broke the contract. How are we to judge the truth without looking at the contract, and whatever service the contractors provided? It's impossible, and taking these seriously demonstrates your gullibility.
    He hasn't even really denied them, he's avoided talking about them. If he asked for proof, I'd bother to spend my time gathering it. Honestly though, I doubt he's interested in that proof, so why waste my time.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

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