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Thread: False Idol — Why the Christian Right Worships Donald Trump

  1. #91
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    At best they can establish a quid pro quo on the national level, which is what diplomacy is. Nothing has established personal quid pro quo.
    I'll assume you've read up on this one. We'll have to agree to disagree. But for the record, a lot of national security officials apparently see no national reason for the quid pro quo, and a lot of people (myself included) CAN see a personal reason for Trump. It's really pretty simple. He wanted to harm a political rival by holding up aid to get Ukraine to agree to investigate said rival.

    On the other side of that argument, what did the US gain from withholding aid to ally against a military and economic rival like Russia?
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  2. #92
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    One last post. "Nothing has established personal quid pro quo" was about the Ukraine nonsense. Retard, you can't read.
    You are an uncouth fool and I'll not argue with you further. You're the reason conservatives come across slobbering idiots.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  3. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.
  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Translation: you didn't actually review the articles that you cited, and expected me to take them seriously as evidence.

    What a joke, I'm not dealing with this any more.
    Wrong article, jackleg.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  5. #94
    tWebber
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    Also, for everyone else reading this: please note that demi-conservative asked for facts, then couldn't read all the articles, made only half-hearted arguments before resorting to calling me a retard and deciding to quit arguing with me. He also implied I was a "sanctimonious ass" because he didn't like what I had to say before all that. Real stand-up, model Christian behavior there, bro.
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  6. Amen oxmixmudd, Charles, Sparko amen'd this post.
  7. #95
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Sure. All I do is work all day behind a desk, post on tweb and watch TV. I bet that describes you and most of tweb.

    I look forward to Charles' Trolling almost as much as I do First Floor's. I find it hilarious that he admonishes the conservatives for things he ignores from the liberal side. Like "whataboutism"

    Whatabout you?

  8. #96
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    No, but Mountain Man doesn't get to pretend to have settled the argument when he didn't really make an argument at all. "I reject your facts" is a terrible argument. Just because my opinion isn't popular doesn't make me an ass. But be careful who you call an ass, lest you look like one yourself.

    seanD is making the best pseudo-pro-Trump arguments here, but I'm still not convinced that the failure to call out sin by evangelicals is justified. But at least he's making reasoned arguments, which I respect.
    What sin? Are you talking about something approximately contemporary, or old news?
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  9. #97
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    What sin? Are you talking about something approximately contemporary, or old news?
    Or, perhaps, both?
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  10. #98
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    Or, perhaps, both?
    Plenty has been said about his past sins. I was as vehemently vitriolic as anyone during the primaries. When he became the candidate, I pondered and prayed, and ultimately clenched my teeth and sphincters and voted for him. I did not trust him to carry through on his promises, and wasn't sure what to expect in terms of his horndoggery. I've been pleased with his policies (there were a few I didn't like, but ATM I can't recall what they were).

    So let's talk about what's relatively current. What "sins" should Christians be prophetically denouncing?
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  11. #99
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    Plenty has been said about his past sins. I was as vehemently vitriolic as anyone during the primaries. When he became the candidate, I pondered and prayed, and ultimately clenched my teeth and sphincters and voted for him. I did not trust him to carry through on his promises, and wasn't sure what to expect in terms of his horndoggery. I've been pleased with his policies (there were a few I didn't like, but ATM I can't recall what they were).

    So let's talk about what's relatively current. What "sins" should Christians be prophetically denouncing?
    I haven't said anything about prophecy, as you well know, so quit being disingenuous. And I guess we should just ignore his past because he's now president? I see the fact that he IS president as a failure of evangelicals to be discerning and/or vocal during the primary process.

    I'm saying Christians should call out his wrongdoing (whatever that is) even as we vote for him. I believe that actual or apparent unconditional support for Donald Trump is impairing the ability of evangelicals to witness to our non-believing countrymen. It's really that simple. I'm arguing for a more nuanced, better articulated evangelical political image than unconditional support for Trump. That's it.

    We can argue all day long about Trump's individual actions, but for the die-hard Trump supporters like MM and demi-conservative (and maybe you? I dunno), they'll always have some excuse why he didn't do anything wrong, or why the can't call him out on it. They're seemingly incapable of recognizing his mistakes because they're so infatuated with him.

    A quote from Albert Einstein comes to mind:

    “Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions."

    Depsite demi's use of quotations around "conservative" in reference to me, I am a conservative. I voted for the man, which is why I find it funny that demi seems to question my conservativ credentials just because I haven't drunk the Koolaid like he has. I'd be interested to some of the people arguing with me here quit with the bully puplit, koolaid-induced insults and denial of all Trump's wrongdoing and actually make an argument that I'm wrong about this.

    If you don't acknowledge Trump's moral failings, then go through the more prominent accusations and present a well-crafted argument that they're all wrong. If you don't want to do that (or acknowledge his moral failings), then let's move past the obvious and talk about the thing I'm actually trying to talk about here. Does unabashed support for Donald Trump help you spread the Gospel? If yes, then how so? If the answer is no....then what in the world are all these Christians doing?
    "We see unmistakably the sort of universe in which we have all along been living, and must come to terms with it. If we had foolish un-Christian hopes about human culture, they are now shattered. If we thought we were building up a heaven on earth, if we looked for something that would turn the present world from a place of pilgrimage into a permanent city satisfying the soul of man, we are disillusioned, and not a moment too soon." - C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

  12. #100
    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    ... Does unabashed support for Donald Trump help you spread the Gospel?...
    What in the world do the two have to do with each other? Scripture is pretty clear on how we are to pray for our leaders. That's it. Our spreading the Gospel has nothing to do with who is President. It has to do with who is Savior, and that's it.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

  13. Amen mossrose, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.

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