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Thread: False Idol — Why the Christian Right Worships Donald Trump

  1. #101
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    What in the world do the two have to do with each other? Scripture is pretty clear on how we are to pray for our leaders. That's it. Our spreading the Gospel has nothing to do with who is President. It has to do with who is Savior, and that's it.
    Scripture is also pretty clear on your obligations towards other human beings. It is also pretty clear on personal responsibility towards other and Jesus identifies with those who are weak, ignored, mistreated, in prison, hungry and the like. It is a wonder how you think you can promote that message in one context and then go on not only to vote (which could be a compromise) but continue an almost unconditional support for a man who not only has a dehumanizing rhetoric but also treats the absolute weakest very badly, taking children away from their parents and the like. I know, because I have seen it before, that you will continue to ignore it, find excuses or go for simplifications like the one you presented above. It is easy to see through. Who your savior is has an influence on your view on human value, dignity and treatment of others. As is indicated by the title of this thread many evangelicals seem to serve another master.
    "That is the little thing, the small thing, which Trump demands of his followers: To call hot cold. To call black white. To call wrong right." Michael Gerson

  2. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  3. #102
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    I haven't said anything about prophecy, as you well know, so quit being disingenuous.
    I was using the term "prophetically" in the sense of "denouncing sin as the prophets did." That is a normal usage of the term.


    And I guess we should just ignore his past because he's now president? I see the fact that he IS president as a failure of evangelicals to be discerning and/or vocal during the primary process.
    I was surprised by the support he got in the primaries, and displeased that he won. I don't consider him a conservative, and I'm skeptical that he has any real ideological core. But in terms of outcome, I think he's done better than my first choice, Lyin' Ted.

    And I had plenty of bad to say about him during the primaries, to the chagrin of some of my evangelical friends. But my criticism had nothing to do with concern about my "witness."

    A serious question: Were you anywhere near as averse to Romney in 2012? I was not. But if the concern is "witness," why would it be any worse to support a profane narcissistic megalomaniacal horndog than a polite and upstanding infidel member of a pseudo-Christian cult?


    I'm saying Christians should call out his wrongdoing (whatever that is) even as we vote for him. I believe that actual or apparent unconditional support for Donald Trump is impairing the ability of evangelicals to witness to our non-believing countrymen. It's really that simple. I'm arguing for a more nuanced, better articulated evangelical political image than unconditional support for Trump. That's it.
    I'd like to see his big-name public supporters be a bit more restrained, especially the relatively more orthodox ones.

    We can argue all day long about Trump's individual actions, but for the die-hard Trump supporters like MM and demi-conservative (and maybe you? I dunno), they'll always have some excuse why he didn't do anything wrong, or why the can't call him out on it. They're seemingly incapable of recognizing his mistakes because they're so infatuated with him.
    I'm *mostly* supportive, more so than Cow Poke, I'd say. I despise a lot of his past, and the way he often behaved in the primaries. I don't like some of his tweeting, especially when it is mean-spirited. But I don't mind his tweeting and other comments as much as some do. I don't mind his profanity. (I think Gutfeld's "America's New York cab driver President" is apt.) I find some of his boasting annoying, some amusing. I thought the Rocky meme was a riot. I am *generally* going to defend him, and in light of Fake News like the Charlottesville thing, I'm going to default to not immediately believing bad reports about him.

    But I really must commend his covfefe.

    A quote from Albert Einstein comes to mind:

    “Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions."

    Depsite demi's use of quotations around "conservative" in reference to me, I am a conservative. I voted for the man, which is why I find it funny that demi seems to question my conservativ credentials just because I haven't drunk the Koolaid like he has. I'd be interested to some of the people arguing with me here quit with the bully puplit, koolaid-induced insults and denial of all Trump's wrongdoing and actually make an argument that I'm wrong about this.

    If you don't acknowledge Trump's moral failings, then go through the more prominent accusations and present a well-crafted argument that they're all wrong. If you don't want to do that (or acknowledge his moral failings), then let's move past the obvious and talk about the thing I'm actually trying to talk about here. Does unabashed support for Donald Trump help you spread the Gospel? If yes, then how so? If the answer is no....then what in the world are all these Christians doing?
    I don't get much IRL occasion to "spread the Gospel." The only time I had frequent IRL contact with unbelievers was college, 40 years ago, when I was a new believer. I live in a churchy small town in western PA. There is literally a church every few blocks, including one street that has two churches right across the street from each other. I would have to go searching to find someone who had not heard the Gospel.

    Can you give me an example of interaction with one or more unbelievers where Trump would come up in the course of "sharing the Gospel"? (In real life, as opposed to online, preferably.) I'm serious.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  4. #103
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myth View Post
    We can argue all day long about Trump's individual actions, but for the die-hard Trump supporters like MM...
    I think you have that impression only because most of the time on this forum, I'm responding to diehard anti-Trump nutcases like oxmixmudd and JimL. As I've said before, Trump offers a rich field for substantive debate, but the majority of the time, we just get the fake news nonsense like "Trump is a modern day Hitler!" and "Trump hates foreigners!", and what can any rational person do but oppose it simply out of a respect for the truth? If that gets me branded as a "diehard Trump supporter" then so be it.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  6. #104
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I think you have that impression only because most of the time on this forum, I'm responding to diehard anti-Trump nutcases like oxmixmudd and JimL. As I've said before, Trump offers a rich field for substantive debate, but the majority of the time, we just get the fake news nonsense like "Trump is a modern day Hitler!" and "Trump hates foreigners!", and what can any rational person do but oppose it simply out of a respect for the truth? If that gets me branded as a "diehard Trump supporter" then so be it.
    I take it as seriously as JimL's 'CP is a Trump supporter'. Trump is doing many things from appointing judges, to immigration policy and walls, to healthcare, foreign policy and trade wars, economic policy, but all they really want to discuss is 'orange man bad', because that's what the mainstream media is focusing on.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  7. #105
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I think you have that impression only because most of the time on this forum, I'm responding to diehard anti-Trump nutcases like oxmixmudd and JimL. As I've said before, Trump offers a rich field for substantive debate, but the majority of the time, we just get the fake news nonsense like "Trump is a modern day Hitler!" and "Trump hates foreigners!", and what can any rational person do but oppose it simply out of a respect for the truth? If that gets me branded as a "diehard Trump supporter" then so be it.
    You have supported trump in his most vile and degrading moments Mm. Your spin on your position doesn't fly.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  8. #106
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    You have supported trump in his most vile and degrading moments Mm. Your spin on your position doesn't fly.
    Right.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  9. #107
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Right.
    indeed it is right MM. We could review, but I know that would not be received, so there is no point. But you are THE quintessential Trump supporter in this forum, more than anyone else you are the man in the MAGA hat defending Trump from all detractors big and small.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-09-2019 at 06:33 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  10. #108
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    indeed it is right MM. We could review, but I know that would not be received, so there is no point. But you are THE quintessential Trump supporter in this forum, more than anyone else you are the man in the MAGA hat defending Trump from all detractors big and small.
    Right.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #109
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Right.
    your record appears to be stuck in the same groove
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  12. #110
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    your record appears to be stuck in the same groove
    I see myself more as the Nick Sandmann type who wears a tolerant smile while virulent anti-Trumpers like you beat a drum in my face.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  13. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.

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